{"id":56088,"date":"2016-05-02T12:37:18","date_gmt":"2016-05-02T17:37:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?p=56088"},"modified":"2025-11-17T17:15:14","modified_gmt":"2025-11-17T23:15:14","slug":"podcast-197-on-the-joys-and-travails-of-thinking","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/character\/self-improvement\/podcast-197-on-the-joys-and-travails-of-thinking\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast #197: On the Joys and Travails of Thinking"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"art19-web-player awp-medium awp-theme-dark-blue\" data-episode-id=\"bd7bcde6-33d2-4fcf-8a88-3bf3d2741158\">&nbsp;<\/div>\n<p>What does it mean to live a &#8220;life of the mind&#8221;?<\/p>\n<p>Why is it important that we make time to ponder and contemplate the heftier ideas of what it means to be a human?<\/p>\n<p>And if we have the desire to lead a contemplative life, how exactly do we go about doing it?<\/p>\n<p>Well, my guest today has spent his life pondering and thinking about these questions. His name is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jvssj\/\">Father James Schall<\/a>. He&#8217;s a Jesuit priest, philosopher, and the Professor of Political Philosophy at Georgetown University. Father Schall has written on a wide variety of topics, but today on the show we focus on his book&nbsp;<em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Life-Mind-Joys-Travails-Thinking\/dp\/193385961X\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=72564f845977c532a338cb3f776c2ff3\">The Life of the Mind: On the Joys and Travails of Thinking<\/a>,&nbsp;<\/em>in which he expounds on ways of approaching thinking so that it delights and edifies us. Today on the show, Fr. Schall and I discuss what it means to take part in the Great Conversation, why the life of the mind has some drudgery to it, and brass-tacks things we can all do to live a more thoughtful and contemplative life.<\/p>\n<h3>Show Highlights<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>Why Father Schall decided to become a Jesuit priest<\/li>\n<li>Why the contemplative life is hard<\/li>\n<li>Why you should approach training the mind like you do training the&nbsp;body<\/li>\n<li>Why the life of the mind requires drudgery<\/li>\n<li>When the contemplative life turns from drudgery into a &#8220;lightness of mind&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>How to live a contemplative life even in the business of life<\/li>\n<li>The book written by a 1920 Dominican priest that can be a guide to living an intellectual life admist&nbsp;hustle and bustle<\/li>\n<li>What the Liberal Arts are and how studying them frees you<\/li>\n<li>How thinking well often requires writing<\/li>\n<li>Why you should collect books (particularly physical books)<\/li>\n<li>Why even lousy novels can teach us something about life<\/li>\n<li>The books Fr. Schall recommends folks have in their personal library<\/li>\n<li>Reading and the contemplative life<\/li>\n<li>Why the life of the mind is figuring out &#8220;what is&#8221;<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h3>Resources\/Studies\/People Mentioned in Podcast<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.chesterton.org\/who-is-this-guy\/\">G.K. Chesterton<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Paul_the_Apostle\">St. Paul<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Plato\">Plato<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Aristotle\">Aristotle<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Ignatius_of_Loyola\">Ignatius of Loyola<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Intellectual-Life-Spirit-Conditions-Methods\/dp\/0813206464\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462204164&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=the+intellectual+life&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=62fa03b219b5f0507bad853028e9aa37\"><em>The Intellectual Life&nbsp;<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Education-Wandering-Man-Louis-LAmour\/dp\/0553286528\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462204145&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=education+of+a+wandering+man&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=0630840de0d0078f4aef4c1a6250c3d9\"><em>Education of a Wandering Man<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Leisure-Basis-Culture-Josef-Pieper\/dp\/1586172565\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462204123&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=leisure+as+the+basis+of+culture&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=3d5868732d76aa002454b804cf9c4787\"><em>Leisure: The Basis of Culture<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Socrates\">Socrates<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Ralph Macknernene<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cslewis.com\/us\/\">C.S. Lewis<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/33ZsWO8\"><em>Orthodoxy&nbsp;<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Guide-Perplexed-E-F-Schumacher\/dp\/006241481X\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462204025&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=a+guide+for+the+perplexed&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=8086b03f168dcde575784031cfa363e2\"><em>A Guide for the Perplexed<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Anthology-Josef-Pieper-ebook\/dp\/B00564CXM8\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462203961&amp;sr=1-4-spell&amp;keywords=joseph+peiper&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=33e23636415054099e5a30083a75be39\">Joseph Piper&#8217;s Anthology<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Politics-Person-as-Being-ebook\/dp\/B01D4TAXKK\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462203872&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=the+politics+of+person&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=363ecdbec649397848d63a7f9e5add48\"><em>T<\/em><em>he Politics of the Person as Politics of Being<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Emmanuel_Levinas\">Emmanuel Levinas<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/kirkcenter.org\/bookman\/\">The University Bookman<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Dante_Alighieri\">Dante<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Thomas_Aquinas\">Aquinas<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Hungry-Soul-Eating-Perfecting-Nature\/dp\/0226425681\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462204187&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=the+hungry+soul&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=7a76e95972edf7138ba2d1c71b938439\"><em>The Hungry Soul<\/em><\/a><\/li>\n<li><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Praise-Sons-Bitches-Worship-Fallen\/dp\/1587316544\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=f65c3fd93332f8a4b87563e784a48b4d\">The&nbsp;Praise of &#8216;Sons of Bitches&#8217;<\/a><\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Life-Mind-Joys-Travails-Thinking\/dp\/193385961X\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462207893&amp;sr=8-2&amp;keywords=the+life+of+the+mind&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=dcde766cf8765a9ff445cedc89d07c82\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-56100 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/book.jpg\" alt=\"The life of the mind by James v. Schall.\" width=\"349\" height=\"499\" srcset=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/book.jpg 349w, https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/book-320x458.jpg 320w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 349px) 100vw, 349px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Life-Mind-Joys-Travails-Thinking\/dp\/193385961X\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=72564f845977c532a338cb3f776c2ff3\"><em>The Life of the Mind&nbsp;<\/em><\/a>is a short read, but jam-packed with insights on how to think and live better. I highly recommend that you pick a up a copy and give it a read. Also, if you&#8217;d like to read more from <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jvssj\/\">Father Schall<\/a>, check out this <a href=\"http:\/\/www.moreC.com\/schall\/\">website<\/a> that catalogs and collects his essays.<\/p>\n<h3>Listen to the Podcast! (And don\u2019t forget to leave us a review!)<\/h3>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-art-of-manliness\/id332516054?mt=2\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49206 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-itunes.png\" alt=\"Available on itunes.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49207 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-stitcher.png\" alt=\"Available on stitcher.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/artofmanliness\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49208 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/soundcloud-logo.png\" alt=\"Soundcloud logo.\" width=\"250\" height=\"127\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pcasts.in:443\/NwCI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49655\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/\/2015\/08\/pocketcasts.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" srcset=\"\" alt=\"Pocketcasts.\" width=\"225\" height=\"225\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/art19.com\/shows\/the-art-of-manliness\/episodes\/bd7bcde6-33d2-4fcf-8a88-3bf3d2741158\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Listen to the episode on a separate page.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/rss.art19.com\/episodes\/bd7bcde6-33d2-4fcf-8a88-3bf3d2741158.mp3\">Download this episode.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a class=\"hs-rss-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.omnycontent.com\/d\/playlist\/aaea4e69-af51-495e-afc9-a9760146922b\/6081eee7-c459-4e12-a1ab-aadc000fc4a7\/413a6904-4d72-4be8-9421-aadc000fc4ba\/podcast.rss\">Subscribe to the podcast in the media player of your choice.<\/a><\/p>\n<h3>Podcast Sponsors<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Art of Manliness Podcast Promotion.<\/strong> We want to know what you do while you listen to the AoM Podcast. Working out? Cutting the lawn? Commuting&nbsp;to work? Snap a pic on Instagram of what you do while listening to the AoM podcast and tag it with @artofmanliness #aompodcast. We&#8217;ll pick a winner May 6, 2016. They&#8217;ll get to pick between a pair of <a href=\"https:\/\/huckberry.com\/store\/grado\/category\/p\/29432-sr80-headphones\">Grado Lab Headphones<\/a> or a set of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/SONOS-PLAY-Compact-Speaker-Streaming\/dp\/B00EWCUK1Q\/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1462207303&amp;sr=8-1&amp;keywords=sonos&amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;tag=artofmanliness03-20&amp;linkId=29e81e8404025f7cb51795c829b0a8c0\">Sonos Speakers<\/a> from <a href=\"https:\/\/huckberry.com\/?utm_source=artofmanliness&amp;utm_medium=affiliate\">Huckberry<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/bouqs.com\/\">Bouqs.<\/a><\/strong> For Mother\u2019s Day, get mom some fresh flowers she\u2019ll love without breaking the bank. Save 20% off the bouquet of your choice by going <span class=\"skimlinks-unlinked\">Bouqs.com<\/span> and enter promo code <strong>MANLINESS.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.squarespace.com\/\">Squarespace.<\/a>&nbsp;<\/strong>Build a website quickly and easily with Squarespace.&nbsp;Start your free trial today, at Squarespace.com and enter offer code ARTOFMAN to get 10% off your first purchase.<\/p>\n<h3>Read the Transcript<\/h3>\n<p>Coming soon!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; What does it mean to live a &#8220;life of the mind&#8221;? Why is it important that we make time to ponder and contemplate the heftier ideas of what it means to be a human? And if we have the desire to lead a contemplative life, how exactly do we go about doing it? Well, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":56107,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[502,156,42269],"tags":[],"yst_prominent_words":[],"class_list":["post-56088","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-character","category-podcast","category-self-improvement"],"featured_image_urls":{"reactor-320":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/book-1-320x211.jpg","rpwe-thumbnail":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/book-1-45x45.jpg"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56088","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=56088"}],"version-history":[{"count":50,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56088\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":142283,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/56088\/revisions\/142283"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/56107"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=56088"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=56088"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=56088"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=56088"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}