{"id":47531,"date":"2015-05-21T17:19:03","date_gmt":"2015-05-21T22:19:03","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?p=47531"},"modified":"2025-11-16T20:38:39","modified_gmt":"2025-11-17T02:38:39","slug":"podcast-115-the-slumbering-masses-with-matthew-j-wolf-meyer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/health-fitness\/health\/podcast-115-the-slumbering-masses-with-matthew-j-wolf-meyer\/","title":{"rendered":"Podcast #115: The Slumbering Masses With Matthew J. Wolf-Meyer"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"art19-web-player awp-medium awp-theme-dark-blue\" data-episode-id=\"1f897c07-8740-4a18-af93-b9a06c08225f\">&nbsp;<\/div>\n<p>Sometimes when I&#8217;m lying in my bed falling asleep, a thought will come across my mind: at this moment tens of millions of people are going completely unconscious and immobile and having crazy hallucinations. Because if you think about it, that&#8217;s what happens when you fall asleep. And&nbsp;you pretty much go to sleep whenever everybody in your timezone or near your timezone goes to sleep too.<\/p>\n<p>But my&nbsp;guest on today&#8217;s podcast argues that we take our current sleep schedule for granted. In fact, it wasn&#8217;t until about the middle of the 19th century that what we consider &#8220;normal sleep&#8221; &#8212; sleeping in one big chunk of time between the hours of 10 PM and 8 AM &#8212; even became a thing.&nbsp;What caused us to get on this &#8220;consolidated&#8221; sleep schedule,&nbsp;what was it like before, and&nbsp;what implications does it have for work and relationships?<\/p>\n<p>Matthew J. Wolf-Meyer is an associate professor of anthropology at the University of California Santa&nbsp;Cruz and the author of the book&nbsp;<em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0816674744\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0816674744&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=stucosuccess-20&amp;linkId=OHKC4WHEHFZML6TE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">The Slumbering Masses: Sleep, Medicine and Modern American Life<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/em>Today on the podcast Dr. Wolf-Meyer and I discuss the anthropology of sleep.<\/p>\n<h3>Show Highlights<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>What sleep was like before the 19th century<\/li>\n<li>The role Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Edison played in today&#8217;s sleeping schedule<\/li>\n<li>Why insomnia isn&#8217;t so much a sleep disorder as a social disorder<\/li>\n<li>How our American sleep and work schedule has spread to Europe and&nbsp;around the world<\/li>\n<li>How our sleep\/work schedule drives the coffee\/energy drink market<\/li>\n<li>What you can do if your personal sleep schedule doesn&#8217;t jive with society&#8217;s sleep schedule<\/li>\n<li>And much more!<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0816674744\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0816674744&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=stucosuccess-20&amp;linkId=OHKC4WHEHFZML6TE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-47533\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/\/2015\/05\/slumbering.jpg\" alt=\"The slumbering masses.\" width=\"286\" height=\"429\" srcset=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/05\/slumbering.jpg 333w, https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/05\/slumbering-320x480.jpg 320w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 286px) 100vw, 286px\" \/><\/a><em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/0816674744\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=0816674744&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=stucosuccess-20&amp;linkId=OHKC4WHEHFZML6TE\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><br \/>\nThe Slumbering Masses&nbsp;<\/a><\/em>isn&#8217;t a sleep book that will tell you how to get better sleep, but it provides some much-needed insight into the history and anthropology of why we sleep the way we do.&nbsp;On top of that, it&#8217;s a fun, engaging read.<\/p>\n<div>\n<h3>Listen to the Podcast! (And don\u2019t forget to leave us a review!)<\/h3>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-art-of-manliness\/id332516054?mt=2\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49206 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-itunes.png\" alt=\"Available on itunes.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49207 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-stitcher.png\" alt=\"Available on stitcher.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/artofmanliness\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49208 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/soundcloud-logo.png\" alt=\"Soundcloud logo.\" width=\"250\" height=\"127\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pcasts.in:443\/NwCI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49655\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/\/2015\/08\/pocketcasts.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" srcset=\"\" alt=\"Pocketcasts.\" width=\"225\" height=\"225\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/managemusic?t=The_Art_of_Manliness\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-56926 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/google-play-podcast-e1464287132541.png\" alt=\"Google play podcast.\" width=\"250\" height=\"190\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2vJHmWhhcMQRXtTruuFWTJ\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-81682\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default.png\" alt=\"Spotify Logo.\" width=\"248\" height=\"130\" srcset=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default.png 400w, https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default-320x168.png 320w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 248px) 100vw, 248px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/art19.com\/shows\/the-art-of-manliness\/episodes\/1f897c07-8740-4a18-af93-b9a06c08225f\">Listen to the episode on a separate page.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/Suffolk enable.services 1701437 38 https:\/\/www.enable.services\/free-consultation\/ 01473 618980 38 Anson Road,Ipswich Suffolk IP5 3RG David Bushnell dbushnell@enable.services 44 1473 618980 Suffolk Lexden Computer Services 3229221 3 https:\/\/lexden.co.uk 01206 890597 36 North Hill Colchester Essex CO1 1QR Jonathan Whiting jonathan@lexden.co.uk 44 7817 980538 Suffolk Lucid Systems 7011015 11 https:\/\/www.lucidsystems.co.uk\/ 01473 355 199 Lucid Systems, 44 Felaw Street,Ipswich, IP2 8SJ, United Kingdom Craig Debenham craig@lucidsystems.co.uk 44 1473 355199 Suffolk React Computer Partnership 4478725 9 https:\/\/www.reactcp.co.uk\/ 01394 387337 Unit 5,Deben Mill Business Centre,Woodbridge Suffolk IP12 1BL Francis Pledger francis@reactcp.co.uk 44 1394 387337 Suffolk Heron IT 6938617 5 https:\/\/heronit.co.uk\/ 01473 350444 Heron IT Pegasus Unit 2 Orion Ave Great Blakenham Ipswich Suffolk IP6 0RL Colin Hammond colin@heronit.co.uk 44 1473 350444 Suffolk ION Networks 7231833 5 https:\/\/www.ionnetworks.co.uk\/ 01842 890000 The Walled Garden Office, Elveden Estate, Thetford, Norfolk, IP24 3TJ Stewart Ramsay stewart@ionnetworks.co.uk Suffolk Plan-IT Consulting Ltd 7168428 7 https:\/\/www.plan-it.co.uk\/ 01473 723046 Unit 9A Delta Terrace, West Road Ransomes Europark Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 9FH Nathan Hart support@plan-it.co.uk Suffolk JM Restart Limited 9488029 3 https:\/\/jm-restart.co.uk\/ 7719991943 20 Basepoint Business Centre, 70 - 72 The Havens, Ipswich,Suffolk, IP3 9BF Matthew Baker matthew.baker@jm-restart.co.uk 44 7719 991940 Suffolk Sage Accounts Solutions 6333592 2 https:\/\/sageaccountssolutions.co.uk\/ 01473 845 646 Felaw Maltings, 44 Felaw Street, Ipswich, Suffolk, IP2 8SJ Rebecca Wooderson FMAAT rebecca@sageaccountssolutions.co.uk 44 1473 530235 Suffolk Global Intec Ltd -Retail &amp; Retail IT Recruitment 4576146 6 https:\/\/globalintec.com\/ 44 (0) 208 242 4197 Global Intec Ltd 9 Appold St, Hackney, London EC2A 2AP Rob Hill robhill@globalintec.com 44 20 3903 5601 Suffolk Finstech Consulting 12421912 1 https:\/\/finstech.co.uk\/ 0800 0016256 Franciscan House, 51 Princes Street,Ipswich, Suffolk, IP1 1UR Rob Greenhalgh rob.greenhalgh@finstech.co.uk 44 800 001 6256 Suffolk eLogistics 4563173 8 http:\/\/www.elogistics.com\/index.php\/contact-us 44 (0) 203 086 9386 The Enterprise Center P.O. Box No: 656 Woolpit, Bury St Edmunds IP30 9WR Tim Meadows-Smith tim.meadows-smith@elogistics.com 44 7846 112297 Norfolk Computer Service Centre 4517529 62 https:\/\/www.computerservicecentre.com\/ 44 (0)1603 431200 19 Meridian Way, Norwich NR7 0TA Kourosh Dastan k.dastan@computerservicecentre.com 44 1603 431200 Norfolk Tiger Eye 5506901 26 https:\/\/www.tigereyeconsulting.com\/ 01603 293 500 The Henderson Business Centre 51 Ivy Road Norwich NR5 8BF Dave Wilson davidw@tigereyeconsulting.com 44 1603 293500 Norfolk ECS Computers Ltd 2407523 17 https:\/\/www.ecscomputers.co.uk\/ 01553 692727 98-99 London Road King's Lynn Norfolk PE30 5HA Toni Heraghty toni@ecscomputers.co.uk 44 1553 692727 Norfolk withsnap. 9763672 1 https:\/\/withsnap.co.uk\/ 01603 980260 Richlyn House,Cedar Road,Norwich. NR9 3JY Alex Harvey alex@withsnap.co.uk 44 1603 980260 Norfolk Uptech Ltd 4083827 5 https:\/\/www.uptech.co.uk\/our-clients\/ 01553 692212 Unit 5, North Lynn Business Village,Bergen Way, King's Lynn, Norfolk, PE30 2JG Jason Carlton jason@uptech.co.uk 44 1553 692212 Norfolk FreeClix Ltd 3892152 11 https:\/\/www.freeclix.com\/ 44 (0) 1603 703340 Quartermaster House,Dewing Rd,Rackheath,Norwich NR13 6PS Peter Freeman pete.freeman@freeclix.com 44 1603 703340 Norfolk Norwich Computer Systems Limited 6278569 1 http:\/\/www.norwichcomputersystems.com\/ 07515 015718 5 South Hill Close, Thorpe St Andrew, Norwich, NR7 0NQ Chris Hadley chris@norwichcomputersystems.com 44 7515 015718 Bedfordshire CLM Business Support 12789257 2 https:\/\/www.clmbusinesssupport.co.uk\/ 44 07432 867081 Cranfield, England, United Kingdom Joe Meddings joe@clmbusinesssupport.co.uk 44 7876 704979 Bedfordshire Centrality 3236716 70 https:\/\/www.centrality.com\/ 44 (0) 1462 857 014 Arran Park, Chapel Road, Meppershall, Bedfordshire,SG17 5NQ David Keeling dkeeling@centrality.com 44 1462 857014 Bedfordshire OrderWork - Services Made Simple 5662167 27 https:\/\/www.orderwork.co.uk\/ 0203 053 0343 Montpelier Chambers, 61 \u2013 63 High Street South, Dunstable LU6 3SF Darren Liles dliles@orderwork.co.uk 44 7738 814085 Bedfordshire Flint IT Ltd - Managed IT Services for SMEs 5395280 2 https:\/\/virtualit.cloud\/ 44 (0)845 2011946 8 Kensworth Gate 200-204 High Street South Dunstable Bedfordshire Jeremy Curtis jeremy@flint-it.com 44 20 7644 2800 Bedfordshire Acentic - now part of Hoist Group 1376766 48 https:\/\/www.hoistgroup.com\/ 46 (0)8 555 685 00 Rontgenvagen 2 171 54 Solna, Stockholm Richard Robinson richard.robinson@acentic.com 44 20 7348 6770 Bedfordshire Empowered SMS - The IT Channel Services Enablement Specialist 5825843 42 https:\/\/www.empowereduk.com\/ 0844 371 1310 Montpelier Chambers, 61 - 63 High Street, South Dunstable, LU6 3SF Darren Liles darren.liles@empowereduk.com 44 844 371 1310 Norfolk Quiits 7762984 12 https:\/\/quiits.com\/ 1603976978 Office 3, Snetterton Business Hub, Harling Road, Snetterton, Norfolk NR16 2JU United Kingdom Manu Murali manu.murali@quiits.com 1603976978 Norfolk Onyx IT 5767170 5 http:\/\/www.onyx-it.co.uk\/ 01603 414142 100 Hellesdon Park Road Norwich, Norfolk, NR6 5DR Stuart Clarke stuartcclarke1@gmail.com 44 7367 344860 Norfolk Empresa Limited 3976138 7 https:\/\/www.empresa.co.uk\/ 44 1603 623030 43 All Saints Green, Norwich NR1 3LY, United Kingdom Matthew Brine m.brine@empresa.co.uk 44 1603 623030 Norfolk Itelica Ltd 4383993 7 https:\/\/www.itelica.com\/ 01603 340095 18-20 Thorpe Rd, Norwich NR1 1RY, United Kingdom Bill Gunn phil@italicauk.com 44 1902 324490 Norfolk Breakwater IT 5401087 20 http:\/\/www.breakwaterit.co.uk\/ 44 1603 709300 Meridian Business Park, 20 Meridian Way, Norwich NR7 0TA, United Kingdom John Gostling gostli_j@hotmail.com 44 1603 709300 Norfolk Netmatters 6742078 87 https:\/\/www.netmatters.co.uk\/ 01603 70 40 20 Unit 15, Penfold Drive, Gateway 11 Business Park,Wymondham, Norfolk, NR18 0WZ James Gulliver james@netmatters.com 44 7909 924188 Norfolk TECPLICITY Limited 12089654 https:\/\/tecplicity.co.uk\/ 01603 828800 The Beeches, The St, Claxton, Norwich NR14 7AS, UK Jonathan Lee Miller j.lee@tecplicity.co.uk 01603 828800 Bedfordshire Total IT Technology Solutions Ltd 6013938 19 https:\/\/www.totalit.uk\/ 0 1908870360 Haines Watts,,Woburn Court, 2 Railton Rd, Kempston, Bedford MK42 7PN Steve Dunmall steve.dunmall@total-it.co.uk 646-727-4031 Bedfordshire Node IT Solutions 6644722 8 https:\/\/www.node-it.com\/ 01767 348007 Suite 3 Baystrait House, Station Road, Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, SG18 8AL Leigh Wood leigh.wood@node-it.com 01767 360006 Bedfordshire Node IT Solutions 11348373 1 https:\/\/cloudgeeks.co.uk\/ 01234 889988 82A Singer Way, Wobrun Rd Ind Estate, Kempston, Beds MK42 7PU Mike Ianiri mike@powerc.com 01234 889988 Bedfordshire Infologic IT Services 3915407 2 https:\/\/www.infologicit.com\/ 01462 606000 3a Waterloo Farm Courtyard, Arlesey, Bedfordshire SG15 6XP Neil Ewer neil@infologicit.com 01727 834252 Bedfordshire Courtland Services Partnership Ltd 6652670 5 http:\/\/courtland-services.co.uk\/ 01462 816973 Church Street, Clifton, Bedfordshire SG17 5EX Kevin Gray kgray@courtland-services.co.uk 01462 816973 Bedfordshire Ukomp 8762075 3 https:\/\/ukomp.com\/ 0 333 344 4184 135-137 Tavistock Street, Bedford, Bedfordshire MK40 2SB Henry Uko henry.uko@ukomp.com 0333 344 4184 Bedfordshire Applied IT Solutions Ltd 5028932 2 http:\/\/www.appliedit.co.uk\/ 0 8453654010 45 Shortmead Street, Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, SG18 0AT Walter Okello Angol walter_angol@yahoo.com N\/A Bedfordshire Dtex Consulting 7189319 1 https:\/\/www.dtex-consulting.co.uk\/ 01767 310236 Rose Lane, BIGGLESWADE, Bedfordshire SG18 0JZ Paul Hyndman paul@dtex-consulting.co.uk 01767 310236 Bedfordshire Sabba I.T. 10721214 2 https:\/\/www.sabba.uk\/ 01767 660 610 135 Brunel Drive Biggeswade Bedfordshire SG18 8BU Jamie Sabbatella jamie@sabba.uk 01767 600103 Bedfordshire Frantik (Web Technologies) 11142288 2 https:\/\/www.frantik-web.co.uk\/ 0845 557 8628 25 Vicarage Close Shillington, Hitchin Hertfordshire, SG5 3LS Toby White mail@tobywhite.de 07969 990088 Bedfordshire Shimmtek 7425240 1 http:\/\/www.shimmtek.co.uk\/ 01525 552100 77 Leighton Road LU7 0NN Leighton Buzzard Central Bedfordshire - England Graham Lathwell graham@shimmtek.co.uk N\/A Bedfordshire avecSys 9285251 4 https:\/\/www.avecsys.com\/ 01234 866 688 2-10 St John's St, Bedford MK42 0DH Dmitry G. dmitry@avecsys.com 01234 866688 Bedfordshire Conquest Wildman Ltd 2927383 5 https:\/\/www.conquestwildman.co.uk\/ 01234 779001 The Granary, Crowhill Farm, Ravensden Road, Wilden, Bedfordshire MK44 2QS Rob Hammond rob@conquestwildman.co.uk N\/A Bedfordshire Pure IT Services Ltd 5954315 3 https:\/\/www.pureitservices.co.uk\/ 0330 223 2043 Wrest Park Enterprise Centre, BEDFORD, MK45 4HS Keith Gibson keith@pureitservices.co.uk 0330 223 2043 Bedfordshire Cirrus Tech Services Limited 8108993 2 http:\/\/www.cirrustechservices.co.uk\/ 44.33334459 S1 Unit C West One, 63-67 Bromham Road, Bedford, England, MK40 2FG Ben von Broembsen benvonb@gmail.com 0333 344 8844 Bedfordshire Empowered 5825843 20 https:\/\/www.empowereduk.com\/ 0844 371 1310 Montpelier Chambers, 61-63 High Street South, Dunstable, Bedfordshire LU6 3SF Darren Liles darren.liles@empowereduk.com 07738 814085 Hertfordshire Sphere IT Consultants | IT Support Hertfordshire 07140079 5 https:\/\/sphereit.uk\/hertfordshire-it-support\/ 44 1707 414500 128 Darkes Ln, Potters Bar EN6 1AE, United Kingdom Louis Ellis louis@sphereit.net 44 1707 414500 Hertfordshire Ashby Computer Services LLP oc383334 11 https:\/\/www.ashbycomputers.co.uk\/ 44 1604 790979 Longman Court, Sketty Cl, Northampton NN4 7PL, UK Ian Ruffell ian@ashbycomputers.co.uk 44 1604 790979 Hertfordshire totality services - IT Support London 06516074 33 https:\/\/www.totalityservices.co.uk\/?utm_source=googlemybusiness&amp;utm_medium=googlemybusiness&amp;utm_campaign=putneyoffice 44 20 3744 3105 7-8 Crescent Stables, London SW15 2TN, United Kingdom Jack Copeland jack@staffingfuture.com 1 949-705-8715 Hertfordshire EBM Managed Services 5577988 15 https:\/\/www.ebmltd.co.uk\/ 01376 512575 Eastways Industrial Estate, 166 Enterprise Ct, Witham CM8 3YS, United Kingdom Michael Bailey michaeljbailey@sky.com 44 1376 512575 Hertfordshire Enactor Limited 5603015 125 https:\/\/enactor.co\/ 44 1992 661315 SALISBURYHOUSE 1, BLUECOATS AVENUE, HERTFORD BLUECOATS AVENUE, United Kingdom, Mike Carrell mike.carrell@enactor.co.uk 44 1992 661315 Hertfordshire Cheeky Munkey | IT Support Hertfordshire 3893540 30 https:\/\/cheekymunkey.co.uk\/ 44 345 456 0525 8 Parkway, Porters Wood, St Albans AL3 6PA, United Kingdom Graham Lane graham.lane@cheekymunkey.co.uk 44 345 456 0525 Bedfordshire ITC Infotech Ltd 2777705 10807 https:\/\/www.itcinfotech.com\/ 44 1908 230055 St Andrews House, CALDECOTTE LAKE Business Park, First Floor, Building No. 5, Milton Keynes MK7 8LF, United Kingdom Robert Best robertbest@infotech.co.uk 44 1908 230055 Bedfordshire Interactive Imagination Ltd 3898614 6 https:\/\/www.iiltd.com\/ 44 20 8963 0208 Elstree Film Studios, Borehamwood, Shenley Rd, Hertfordshire WD6 1JG, United Kingdom Mel Fiondella mel@iiltd.com 44 20 8963 0208 Norfolk Quiits - Telecom &amp; Software Solutions | Web development Company UK | App developers UK 7762984 12 https:\/\/quiits.com\/ 0044 1603 976978 Office 3, Snetterton Business Hub, Snetterton Park, Snetterton NR16 2JU, United Kingdom Shammy Rahim shammy.rahim@gmail.com 44 20 3769 5153 Norfolk Empresa Limited 3976138 7 https:\/\/www.empresa.co.uk\/ 44 1603 623030 43 All Saints Green, Norwich NR1 3LY, United Kingdom Matthew Brine m.brine@empresa.co.uk 44 1603 623030 Essex ECOM UK Limited 209060 7 https:\/\/www.ecom.uk.com\/ 44 1268 209060 Lodge, 2-3 Hovefields Ave, Basildon SS13 1EB, United Kingdom Lloyd Harris lloyd@ecomgroup.co 44 1268 209060 Essex 3C Technology Ltd 2604836 21 https:\/\/www.3ctech.co.uk\/ 44 1206 790060 Network House, Hawkins Rd, Colchester CO2 8LA, United Kingdom Darren Smith darren@3ctech.co.uk 44 1206 790060 Essex Infinity group 4330595 76 https:\/\/www.infinitygroup.co.uk\/it-support-in-essex\/ 03303 333 648 3rd Floor, The News Building, Shard Quarter, 3 London Bridge, London, SE1 9SG Rob Young rob.young@infinitygroup.co.uk 44 345 450 4600 Hertfordshire Cambridge Support Ltd 11599396 13 https:\/\/cambridgesupport.com\/ 01223 901 900 1, Willow Court, Willow Road, Fenstanton, Huntingdon PE28 9RD, United Kingdom Philip Mashinchi phil.mash@brightvisions.co.uk 44 330 223 2288 Hertfordshire HCL TECHNOLOGIES UK LIMITED 8658132 72 https:\/\/www.hcltech.com\/geo-presence\/united-kingdom 44 1784 228931 1st floor, Orion House, Bessemer Rd, Welwyn Garden City AL7 1HH, United Kingdom Santosh Sankpal santy_s@yahoo.com 91 98704 35158 Kent T Outcomes - IT Company Folkestone 10878836 9 https:\/\/www.itoutcomes.com\/ 44 330 332 6262 Stone Street, Folkestone CT18 8DJ, United Kingdom Jason Bramley jason@itoutcomes.com 44 330 332 6362 Norfolk Quiits Bringing Smart Solutions 7762984 12 https:\/\/quiits.com\/ 0044 1603 976978 Office 3, Snetterton Business Hub, Snetterton Park, Snetterton NR16 2JU, United Kingdom Shammy Rahim shammy.rahim@gmail.com 44 20 3769 5153 Nottingham Aryza 10810071 87 https:\/\/www.aryza.com\/ 0800 072 0092 2 Castle Quay, Nottingham NG7 1FW, United Kingdom Martin Prigent martin.prigent@gmail.com 44 7391 354304 Nottingham Cronofy Ltd 7878590 23 https:\/\/www.nottinghamitsupport.co.uk\/ 0115 824 2270 4th Floor, 1 Broadway, Nottingham NG1 1PR, United Kingdom Adam Bird adam.bird@cronofy.com 44 7515 353741 Suffolk Dunblue Ltd 6291003 2 https:\/\/www.dunblue.com\/ 01473 553335 70-72 The Havens, Ransomes Europark, Ipswich, Suffolk IP3 9BF Andy Wright andy.wright@dunblue.com 44 1473 553 335 Suffolk TMB Group 10953691 27 http:\/\/www.tmb.co.uk\/ 0333 900 9050 The Old Town Hall, 4 Queens Road, Wimbledon, SW19 8YB Tina V. tina.verney@tmb.co.uk 44 333 900 9050 Suffolk Corbel 3510946 44 https:\/\/www.corbel.co.uk\/ 01473 241515 Corbel Solutions Limited, 9 Wentworth Road, Ipswich, IP3 9SY, GB Karen Rogers krogers@corbel.co.uk 44 1473 241515 Suffolk EBM Managed Services 9399698 15 https:\/\/www.ebmltd.co.uk\/ 01376 512575 166 Enterprise Court, Eastways Industrial Estate, Witham, Essex CM8 3YS, GB Mark Bailey mark@ebmltd.co.uk 44 1376 512575 Suffolk Lucid Systems 7011015 11 http:\/\/www.lucidsystems.co.uk\/ 01473 355 199 Lucid Systems, 44 Felaw Street, Ipswich, IP2 8SJ, United Kingdom Craig Debenham craig@lucidsystems.co.uk 44 1473 355199 Bedfordshire Just Computers 5920386 10 https:\/\/justcomputersonline.co.uk\/ 01234 300099 7 High Street, Kempston, Bedford, Bedfordshire, MK42 7BT Tom Eyre tom@jcemail.co.uk N\/A Bedfordshire Cloud 9 Education Services 11474161 1 https:\/\/cloud9education.co.uk\/ 07538 000294 Ailesbury Road, Ampthill, England MK45 2, GB Ilian Gavillet i.gavillet@cloud9education.co.uk N\/A Essex PCL Technology Ltd. 7420582 7 https:\/\/www.pcl-tech.com\/ 0330 1025 777 3 Hambro Parade Rayleigh Essex SS6 9PU Phil Osborne phil@pcl-tech.com 0 44 1268 983983 Essex Johnson Technical Systems Ltd 5299570 12 https:\/\/www.jtechnical.net\/ 01277 888 799 Unit 201, Waterhouse Business Centre 2 Cromer Way, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QE Nick Johnson nick.johnson@jtechnical.net 0 44 1277 888727 Kent Global Associates 8324955 33 https:\/\/www.global-associates.co.uk\/ 44 (0)1795 411534 Suite 40, 940 Innovation Building Kent Science Park Sittingbourne Kent ME9 8HL Paul W. pwetherfield@global-associates.co.uk 44 113 390 0189 Kent Keep It Simple Software (UK) 2118013 2 https:\/\/kiss-uk.com\/ 0800 1448 820 Keep It Simple Software (UK) Ltd 3a Market Street Faversha Kent ME13 8JN &quot; Rachel Wynn &quot; rachel@beyondtheclouds.solutions N\/A Kent RSK Business Solutions 9997268 78 https:\/\/www.rsk-bsl.com\/ 44 (0) 1732 833111 Anerley Court, Half Moon Lane, Hildenborough, Kent, TN11 9HU, UKUnit &quot; Praveen Joshi &quot; praveen@businessmocha.com N\/A Bedfordshire CLM Business Support 12789257 2 https:\/\/www.clmbusinesssupport.co.uk\/ N\/A 14 Lime Tree Corner CranfieldnBedford MK43 0ZE Joe Meddings joe@clmbusinesssupport.co.uk 44 7876 704979 Essex WebbyTech Ltd 10065841 8 https:\/\/www.webbytech.co.uk\/ 01376 319920 WebbyTech Ltd, Gowers Farm, Tumblers Green, Braintree, CM77 8AZ Gemma Dark gemdonaldson@hotmail.com 44 1702 900400 Essex Essex Computers Limited (ECL) - IT Support Essex 2951120 7 https:\/\/www.ecl.co.uk\/?utm_source=gmb&amp;utm_medium=organic&amp;utm_campaign=gmb 01268 575300 11 Kendal Court, Hurricane Way, Wickford, Business Park, Wickford, Essex. SS11 8YB Robin Francis robin@ecl.co.uk 01268 575300 Essex Clear Thinking Solutions 12299709 18 https:\/\/clearthinking.co.uk\/ 0800 080 3180 Unit 3, Radford Business Centre, Radford Crescent, Billericay, Essex, CM12 0DP Julia Gowans juliagadsden@hotmail.com 0800 080 3180 Essex Atlas Computer Systems Ltd 5078708 3 https:\/\/www.atlascode.com\/ 0800 133 7948 Unit 7 Britannia Business Park Comet Way Southend-on-Sea Essex SS2 6GE UK Simon Swords simon.swords@fundipedia.com 44 800 133 7948 Essex Gemraj Technologies Limited 9706132 34 https:\/\/www.gemrajtechs.com\/ 0800 051 7679 Cornwallis Business Centre, Howard Chase, Basildon, SS14 3BB, United Kingdom Asjit Teja (Tej) tej@gemrajtechs.com 44 800 051 7679 Essex KJL Group - Complete Technology Management 11680355 17 https:\/\/www.kjlgroup.co.uk\/ (01268) 857118 16 Seax Centre, Fenton Way, Basildon, SS15 6SL Alex Cook alex@copylogic.co.uk 44 1268 857118 Essex TechVertu 7981449 9 https:\/\/www.techvertu.co.uk\/ 020 3821 1119 London Rd, Grays RM20 4DB, United Kingdom Hadi Marashy hadimarashy@yahoo.com 44 7717 004649 Essex Method IT Support Essex 6842749 11 https:\/\/method-it.co.uk\/ 0345 521 6111 Aquila House Waterloo Lane Chelmsford Essex, CM1 1BN Matt Sullivan matt.sullivan@method-it.co.uk 44 345 521 6111 Essex Offsite I.T Limited 5846000 6 https:\/\/www.offsiteit.co.uk\/ 893 9833 54 Unit 3 Brocks Business Park, Wickford, Essex, SS11 8YN Scott Lyle scott@offsiteit.co.uk 893 9833 54 Essex Curo Support Services Limited 6684361 11 https:\/\/www.curosupport.co.uk\/ 0345 021 0077 Unit 21 Lubards Farm Hullbridge Rd Rayleigh SS6 9QG Pete Ball pete.ball@curosupport.co.uk 0345 021 0077 Essex IT Positive Ltd 8675847 9 http:\/\/it-positive.co.uk\/ 01376 653115 Unit 3 Little Braxted Hall Little Braxted Witham Essex CM8 3EU David Lee david.lee@it-positive.co.uk 44 1245 807484 Essex Eserve.IT 4059047 11 http:\/\/www.eserve.it\/ 01245 205050 Oakfold, Hook End Road, Hook End, Brentwood, Essex, CM15 0HA Reece Charlesworth reece@eserve.it 44 1245 205050 Midland Britcon (UK) Limited 2463833 64 http:\/\/www.britcon.co.uk\/ 01724 280022 Midland Road, Scunthorpe North Lincolnshire, DN16 1DQ Paul Jeffrey paul.jeffrey@britcon.co.uk 44 1724 280022 Midland Autism East Midlands 2053860 29 https:\/\/www.autismeastmidlands.org.uk\/ 01909 506 678 Unit 31 Crags Ind Estate, Morven Street, Creswell. Nottinghamshire S80 4AJ Alex Levy alevy@marketforce.com 1 770-441-5366 Midland ISA Support Services Ltd 7806663 29 http:\/\/www.isasupportservices.co.uk\/ 03301 071 300 28 George Street Birmingham West Midlands B12 9RG Sunny Araf Dir.IPSA sunny@isasupportservices.co.uk 44 7927 898804 Midland NTT DATA UK 3085018 830 http:\/\/uk.nttdata.com\/ 4420 7220 9200 2 Royal Exchange 3rd Floor London EC3V 3DG United Kingdom Simon Williams spjwilliams@gmail.com 61 7 3308 9400 Midland Information Solutions Ltd 4798672 7 https:\/\/www.info-sol.co.uk\/ 01743 343411 The Pump House Shrewsbury SY1 2DP Nathan Bensley-Edwards nathan@info-sol.co.uk 44 1743 343411 Suffolk Smy IT Services 10810331 4 http:\/\/smyservices.com\/ 01473 557 203 Cedar House Mill Hill Capel St Mary Ipswich Suffolk IP9 2JE Carl Green cg@smyservices.com 44 1473 577203 Bedfordshire avecSys - Complete Business IT 9285251 4 https:\/\/www.avecsys.com\/ 01234 866 688 Salamander House, 2-10 St John\u2019s Street, Bedford, Dmitry G. dmitry@avecsys.com 44 1234 866688 Bedfordshire WHITECHERRY BUSINESS SOLUTIONS LIMITED 7560727 5 https:\/\/www.conquestwildman.co.uk\/ 01234 779001 North London, Welwyn Garden City, St Albans, Toby White mail@tobywhite.de 44 7969 990088 Bedfordshire Restore Technology 4200502 69 https:\/\/www.restore.co.uk\/technology 03330 601 859 Redhill Distribution Centre, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5DY Stephen Talbot steve.talbot@restore-technology.co.uk 44 345 646 4666 norfolk onyx 5682619 5 Onyx-IT 01603 414142 100 Hellesdon Park Road Norwich, Norfolk, NR6 5DR Paresh Bodhani paresh.bodhani@abacusnetwork.co.uk 447956 475981 Kent IT Backbone Limited 6746807 2 https:\/\/www.itbackbone.co.uk\/ 020 7199 2222 IT Backbone (Head Office), Unit 5, Chaucer Industrial Park, Watery Lane, Kemsing, Sevenoaks, Kent, TN15 6PL Jason Chaplin jason.chaplin@itbackbone.co.uk 44 20 7199 2222 norfolk mode 5 9323283 26 https:\/\/www.mode5.com\/ 757-628-8324 350 W. 22nd Street, Suite 106 Norfolk, VA 23517 Norfolk It Becomes Fluid Ltd - Software Developer and Website Designer 5774231 1 https:\/\/www.itbecomesfluid.com\/ 44 1603 404733 1 Inman Rd, Norwich NR7 8JT, United Kingdom Dr Ashley T. Howes ashley@itbecomesfluid.com 44 1603 404733 Norfolk Norcom Technology Limited 2467086 3 http:\/\/www.norcom-technology.co.uk\/ 44 1603 765252 10 Princes St, Norwich NR3 1AE, United Kingdom Phil Harris philipalanharris@tiscali.co.uk 44 1603 765252 Norfolk S2 Computers - IT Support Norwich 9515059 4 https:\/\/s2-computers.co.uk\/ 44 1603 765252 Norwich, Norfolk, UK Andrew Atthowe sales@s2-computers.co.uk 44 1603 670682 Norfolk Netcentral Solutions 5893717 1 https:\/\/net-central.co.uk\/#2 44 1953 859805 Unit 3G Snetterton Business Park, Snetterton, Norwich NR16 2JU, United Kingdom Nik Howard nik@nikhoward.co.uk 44 1953 859805 Buckinghamshire Mirus IT Solutions Limited 7783171 93 https:\/\/mirus-it.co.uk\/ 44 1908 257350 Mirus IT, 7 Clarendon Dr, Wymbush, Milton Keynes MK8 8ED, United Kingdom Richard Finch richard@mirus-it.co.uk 44 1908 257350 Buckinghamshire Avanza IT Services Ltd 12549446 2 https:\/\/www.avanza-it.co.uk\/ 44 1234 860620 21 Rectory Ln, Houghton Conquest, Bedford MK45 3LD, United Kingdom Enzo Frangiamore enzo@avanza-it.co.uk 44 1234 860620 Hertfordshire Business IT Services - CompuTask 10503074 8 https:\/\/www.computask.co.uk\/ 01438 53 50 50 Diamond Industrial Centre, CompuTask Business IT Support Unit 6m, Works Rd, Letchworth Garden City SG6 1LW, United Kingdom Sam Godfrey dan@computask.co.uk 44 1438 535050 Hertfordshire Trust Networks Ltd 7154598 5 https:\/\/www.trustnetworks.co.uk\/ 01727 867919 12, Stanta Business Centre, 3 Soothouse Spring, St Albans AL3 6PF, United Kingdom KEVIN MATTHEW kevin@trustnetworks.co.uk 44 1727 867919 Bedfordshire TLM Technologies 7427651 63 http:\/\/www.tlmtechnologies.co.uk\/ 44 845 180 0242 The Guildway, Bramley House, Old Portsmouth Rd, Guildford GU3 1LR, United Kingdom Adrian Felton adrian.felton@tlmgroup.co.uk 44 7769 695478 Bedfordshire BlackPoint IT Seattle 7609293 85 https:\/\/blackpoint-it.com\/?utm_source=local&amp;utm_medium=organic&amp;utm_campaign=gmb-Seattle 1 206-575-9511 20415 72nd Ave S Suite 210, Bldg. 1, Kent, WA 98032, United States James Watson jrw@blackpoint-it.com 1 206-575-9511 kent Absols Complete IT Solutions 5837552 5 http:\/\/www.absols.co.uk\/ 01622 678 032 Absols Complete IT Solutions, 52 Blythe Rd, Maidstone ME15 7TS, United Kingdom Ian Wilkinson iwilkinson@absols.co.uk Hertfordshire Tristar IT Support 4092696 3 https:\/\/www.tristartechsolutions.co.uk\/ 0844 939 0333 Weltech Business Centre, Ridgeway, Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire Hazem Megerisi hazem.megerisi@tristartechsolutions.co.uk 44 844 939 0333 Nottingham Littlefish (UK) Ltd 4700876 380 https:\/\/www.littlefish.co.uk\/ 0344 848 4440 Price House, 37 Stoney Street, Nottingham NG1 1LS Steve Robinson steve.robinson@littlefish.co.uk 44 115 941 5111 Hertfordshire Storm Technologies 3998372 159 https:\/\/www.storm-technologies.com\/ 44 (0) 1923 80 10 80 The Boulevard 2 Blackmoor Lane Watford Hertfordshire WD18 8YW Igwemoh Jacob igwemoh@gmail.com Hertfordshire Modern Networks 3881576 98 https:\/\/modern-networks.co.uk 01462 426 500 18 Knowl Piece,Wilbury Way,Hitchin,Hertfordshire,SG4 0TY James Tizzard jtizzard@modern-networks.co.uk 44 1462 426500 Essex Utilize Plc 3405211 107 https:\/\/www.utilize.co.uk 0333 006 9060 Utilize House, Bentalls Basildon, Essex, SS14 3BX Warren Davies warren.davies@utilize.co.uk 44 20 7167 4889 Essex Pinnaca Retail &amp; IT Solutions Limited 9749771 11 https:\/\/www.pinnacaretail.com\/ 44 (0) 20 3747 4366 Sterling House ,Ground Floor, Suite G1A ,Langston Road, Loughton, Essex IG10 3TS, GB Minesh Thakkar minesh@pinnacaretail.com 44 20 3747 4366 Hertfordshire Primenet Ltd. 3139999 41 https:\/\/www.primenetuk.com\/ 44 (0) 20 3384 3916 Unit 8, Arlington Court, Whittle Way, Stevenage ,Great Britain Dorota Gibiino dorota@primenetuk.com 49 9391 6059000 Essex Shadowfax Technology Ltd 2500412 12 https:\/\/sfax.co.uk\/ 01279 813076 Unit 2 Hatfield Regis Grange Estate, Hatfield Broad Oak, Essex, CM22 7JZ Adam Pedder adam@sfax.co.uk 44 333 240 0660 Essex Arc (UK) Systems Ltd 2695504 35 https:\/\/www.arcsystems.co.uk\/ 01268 288100 Unit 9, Carnival Business Park Carnival Close Basildon Essex SS14 3WN James Clayden jamesc@arcsystems.co.uk 44 20 7430 9222 Essex INSIGNIA IT LIMITED 8975386 3 https:\/\/www.insigniait.co.uk\/ 44 20 3514 3088 Unit 6 RO24, Harlow Business Park, Greenway, Harlow, Essex. CM19 5QB Kamran Khan kkhan@insignia-group.co.uk 44 20 3750 0575 Hertfordshire Sharp-aX Computer Systems 9786303 20 https:\/\/www.sharp-ax.com\/ 01442 505 950 R &amp; R House Northbridge Road Berkhamsted Hertfordshire HP4 1EH Jean Freeman jfreeman@sharp-ax.com 44 1442 505950 Hertfordshire CSP I.T 3292487 26 https:\/\/www.csp.uk.com\/ 01923 800 800 Unit 105 Park House, 15 \u2013 19 Greenhill Crescent, Watford WD18 8PH Stijn Petry stijn@onlinepaycaribe.com Essex FusionTech UK 12739506 1 https:\/\/www.fusion-tech.co.uk\/ 1206803144 Tendring District Essex CO13 0FR United Kingdom Jamie Graham jamie@fusion-tech.co.uk 44 7482 557556 Hertfordshire Vantage IT Solutions Limited 3750576 5 https:\/\/vantageit.co.uk\/ 01296 668 966 Unit 2, Airfield Park Cheddington Lane Long Marston Tring Hertfordshire HP23 4QR United Kingdom Steven Tarbox steve.tarbox@vantageit.co.uk 44 1296 668966 Hertfordshire Cloud Focus 8293386 3 https:\/\/www.cloudfocus.co.uk\/ 020 3289 2178 Kendray Business Centre Thornton Road Barnsley S70 3NA Shaun Wilders shaun@cultrix.co.uk 44 330 333 5793 Midlands GNC Technology Limited 5029703 9 https:\/\/www.gnctechnology.co.uk\/ 0333 241 2544 GNC Technology,Coniston DUpton Magna Business Park,Shrewsbury,Shropshire,SY4 4TT Dinesh Saluwadana dinesh.saluwadana@gnctechnology.co.uk 44 333 241 2544 Essex Naglotech Limited 5326296 5 https:\/\/naglotech.com\/ 01255 745 745 5 CLACTON ROAD ST OSYTH, CLACTON ON SEA, ESSEX CO16 8PA Andy Booth abooth@naglotech.com 44 1255 745745 Essex Softlink Solutions Ltd 8921826 14 https:\/\/softlinksolutions.co.uk\/ 0845 094 0010 Heybridge Business Centre 110 The Causeway Maldon Essex CM9 4ND Neil Trivett neil@softlinksolutions.co.uk 44 845 094 0010 Essex itauthority 3 https:\/\/www.itauthority.co.uk\/ 0845 451 2028 The Wood Shed,Little Hyde Farm,Little Hyde Lane,Ingatestone,Essex. CM4 0DU Paul Howes paul.howes@itauthority.co.uk Essex Sarala Computers Ltd 6187132 5 https:\/\/sarala.co.uk\/ 01376 316101 Laxfield House,2A Church Street,Coggeshall,Essex CO6 1TU Alasdair Hodgkins alasdair@sarala.com 44 1376 316101 Essex CUBE 6 IT LTD 6312419 6 https:\/\/cube6it.com\/ 01206 804 734 Unit 5a, Wakes Hall Business Center, Colchester Road, Wakes Colne, Colchester, Essex, CO62DY, United Kingdom Dave Garrett dave@cube6it.com Essex Espok IT Solutions 9270946 3 https:\/\/www.espok.co.uk\/ 0800 010 6216 Warlies Park House, Horseshoe Hill, Upshire, Waltham Abbey EN9 3SL, UK Laxhman Amit laxhman.amit@espok.co.uk 44 800 010 6216 Midlands IT and Print Limited 7573105 4 https:\/\/www.itandprint.co.uk\/ 02476 992881 Unit 16 Coventry Canal Warehouse Leicester Row Coventry CV1 4LH Michael Geary michaelwgeary@me.com 1 281-620-7877 Hertfordshire Cobra 4267198 587 https:\/\/www.amazingsupport.co.uk\/ 0203 728 2555 Unit 15, The Hub Elstree Aerodrome Hogg Lane, Elstree Hertfordshire WD6 3AW Steen Jennings steen@cobrasupport.net 44 1923 821210 Essex Acuutech 3174610 49 https:\/\/www.acuutech.com\/ 44 (0) 20 8502 2155 5\/6 York House, Langston Road,Loughton, Essex IG10 3TQ Hitan Mehta hitan.mehta@acuutech.com 44 20 8502 2155 Hertfordshire NVOY Technologies 11288194 14 https:\/\/nvoytechnologies.com\/ 020 3965 9631 News Building London SE1 9SG Steve Wilde steve@nvoytechnologies.com 44 20 3965 963 Hertfordshire Koris365 (formerly 365IT) 6215347 46 https:\/\/www.koris365.com\/ 0345 2300365 8 Grovelands, Boundary Way, Hemel Hempstead, HP2 7TE Clive Atkins clive@atkins-family.co.uk 44 344 874 1000 Hertfordshire Genmar IT (UK) limited 3246950 10 https:\/\/genmar.co.uk\/ 0330 445 1234 Unit 12 The Links Business Centre, CM23 5NZ Garry Moore g.moore@genmar.co.uk 44 330 445 1234 Midlands Netmetix Ltd 4090144 19 https:\/\/netmetix.net\/ 02476 408 100 4 Sycamore Court,Birmingham Road,Coventry CV5 9BA Paul Blore paul.blore@netmetix.net 44 24 7640 8100 Essex RIVIERA NETWORKS LIMITED 4794045 8 https:\/\/www.riviera-networks.co.uk\/ 01268 568 650 7 Sopwith Crescent Hurricane Way Wickford Essex SS11 8YU Paul Randall prandall@riviera-networks.co.uk 44 1268 568650 Nottingham Mason Infotech Ltd 8606399 11 https:\/\/www.masoninfotech.co.uk\/ 44 115 940 8040 29 Bridgford Rd West Bridgford Nottingham NG2 6AU Stephen Mason stephen.mason@masoninfotech.co.uk 44 115 940 8040 Essex Boomslang Consultants 9683251 1 https:\/\/boomslangconsultants.com\/ 01206 580131 Office 11,Colchester Business Center,Hawkins Road,Colchester,Essex,CO4 5UR Michael Hale 1mikehale@googlemail.com 44 1206 266940 Hertfordshire IT REMEDIES LIMITED 6848895 5 https:\/\/www.itremedies.co.uk\/ 0845 094 04 94 Limuru Whelpley Hill Chesham HP5 3RL Paul Bradshaw paul.bradshaw@itremedies.co.uk 44 845 094 0494 Hertfordshire Redsquid 10876132 41 https:\/\/redsquid.co.uk\/ 020 8166 4540 Floor 2, Premiere House, Borehamwood, Hertfordshire WD6 1JH, United Kingdom Sohin Raithatha sohin@redsquid.co.uk 44 20 8166 4540 Hertfordshire Flow Communications 6770175 27 https:\/\/www.flow-communications.co.uk\/ 01442 927 996 Punchbowl 130, Punchbowl Park, Green Lane,, Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire HP2 7HT, United Kingdom Etienne Greeff egreeff@flow-communications.co.uk 44 844 414 5256 Hertfordshire ServiceTec 4936619 155 https:\/\/servicetec.com\/ 44 (0) 1462 476200 International Ltd,The Spirella Building,Letchworth Garden City,Hertfordshire, SG6 4ET, UK David Ison david.ison@servicetec.com 1 703-259-4000 Hertfordshire OCS Consulting plc 1894212 81 https:\/\/www.ocs-consulting.com\/ 44 0 20 8731 4335 Devonshire House Manor Way Borehamwood Hertfordshire WD6 1QQ Maurice Aroesti m.aroesti@ocs-consulting.com 44 20 8731 4335 Hertfordshire Lumina Technologies Ltd 3536183 16 https:\/\/www.luminatech.co.uk\/ 01442 500890 Lumina House 37 Mark Road Hemel Hempstead Hertfordshire HP2 7DN Richard McBarnet rmcbarnet@luminatech.co.uk 44 1442 500890 Essex D&amp;A Media 3960314 12 https:\/\/damedia.co.uk\/ 0333 016 2999 8-12 Sirdar Road, Rayleigh, Essex SS67XF, United Kingdom Michael Green michael.green@damedia.co.uk 44 1268 798000 Essex Akhter Computers Ltd 2253061 48 https:\/\/www.akhter.co.uk\/ 44 (0)1279 821 200 1-3 Marshgate Business Centre,Harlow Business Park,Parkway Harlow,Essex CM19 5QP Alan Laffoley alan.laffoley@akhter.co.uk 44 1279 821200 Kent Attentus Technolgyies 3960078 12 https:\/\/www.attentus.tech\/managed-it-service-providers-kent-wa (253) 785-9386 1201 Monster Rd SW #430, Renton, WA 98057 Charles Bender N\/a N\/a Kent S.A.D.S - IT Support &amp; Services 10508520 10 https:\/\/sads.com\/it-support-kent\/ 0344 8111167 Systems Analysis Design and Support 10, Palace Avenue, Maidstone, Kent, ME15 6NF Matthew John BUSBY N\/a N\/a Kent Computer Rescue Ltd 5589373 8 https:\/\/www.cr-it.co.uk\/ 01795 430 030 940\/48 Popjak Road, Kent Science Park. Sittingbourne, Kent ME9 8HL Jason Lydford N\/a N\/a Bedfordshire Edge IT 7940927 9 https:\/\/www.edgeit.co.uk\/locations\/bedfordshire\/ 44 (0) 2081 444 103 Devonshire Business Centre, Works Rd, Letchworth Garden City SG6 1GJ, United Kingdom Steve Robinson steve.robinson@littlefish.co.uk 44 Bedfordshire Dr Jones IT Support - IT Support Bedfordshire 7283829 1 https:\/\/www.drjonespcs.co.uk\/ 44 1767 668616 Harrison House, Sheep Walk, Langford Rd, Biggleswade SG18 9RB, United Kingdom John Jones johnajones@drjonespcs.co.uk 44 1767 668616 Bedfordshire Tappable 7516640 14 https:\/\/tappable.co.uk\/ 44 (0) 1234 414774 The Innovation CentrePriory Business ParkStannard WayBedfordMK44 3RZ Raj Singh raj@tappable.co.uk 44 (0) 1234 414774 Bedfordshire SLICSOFT -8563263 2 https:\/\/slicsoft.co.uk\/ 44 7402262699 FLAT 414 CUTMORE, ROPEWORKS, 1 ARBORETUM PLACE, IG11 7GS, BARKING, Greater London Vamsi Nalam vamsinalam@hotmail.com 44 7402262699 Bedfordshire RedKeyIT 10756983 1 https:\/\/redkeyit.co.uk\/ 3452411686 Unit 15 Marston Business Park Lower HazeldinesMarston MoretaineBedfordshireMK43 0XT Barry Hayward barry@redkeyit.co.uk 3452411686 Bedfordshire Bluebell IT Solutions 1987560 5 https:\/\/www.wearebluebell.co.uk\/ 44 1908 044202 Blisworth Hill Farm, 3 Briary Barn, Stoke Rd, Blisworth, Northampton NN7 3DB, United Kingdom Ben Hobbs benhobnob@googlemail.com 44 1908 044202 Bedfordshire Get Support IT Services Limited 7003640 17 https:\/\/www.getsupport.co.uk\/ 020 3026 7000 Unit B, Oakwood, Oakfield Industrial Estate, Eynsham, Oxfordshire OX29 4TH James Craddock james@getradio.co.uk 020 3026 7000 Bedfordshire Elephant IT 6151427 1 https:\/\/elephant-it.co.uk\/ 01603 498 999 Norwich, England, United Kingdom Tim Wiseman tim.wiseman@elephant-it.co.uk 0777 217 9231 Bedfordshire Complete I.T. Thames Valley 12039365 160 https:\/\/www.complete-it.co.uk\/ 44 1628 243057 Complete I.T. Oakingham House, Frederick Pl, High Wycombe HP11 1JU, United Kingdom Jessica Symondson jessica.symondson@complete-it.co.uk 44 1628 243057 Bedfordshire Complete IT Systems Ltd -6224858 71 https:\/\/www.cit-sys.co.uk\/ 44 116 265 1520 4 Penman Way, Enderby, Leicester LE19 1SY, United Kingdom Paul Spence pauls@cit-sys.co.uk 44 116 265 1520 Bedfordshire Complete I.T. Swindon 8319843 2 https:\/\/www.complete-it.co.uk\/it-support-swindon-and-wiltshire\/ 01628 243 057 Business Park, 84a Shrivenham Hundred, Watchfield, Swindon SN6 8TY, United Kingdom Adam Miller adam.miller@complete-it.co.uk 01628 243 057 Midlands ORBITS IT 7084128 15 https:\/\/www.orbitsit.co.uk\/ 0121 270 3377 Unit 17Long Lane Trading EstateHalesowenB62 9LD Jim Lewington jim.lewington@orbitsit.co.uk 0121 270 3377 Midlands Applause IT Recruitment 4008943 16 https:\/\/www.applauseit.co.uk\/?utm_source=google&amp;utm_medium=organic&amp;utm_campaign=google_my_business 0121 312 1101 Somerset House, 37 Temple St, Birmingham B2 5DP, United Kingdom Mike Scotney mike@applauseit.co.uk 44 121 312 1101 Midlands Midland Networks 5549505 10 https:\/\/midlandnetworks.co.uk\/ 44 121 270 8700 21A Stone St, Dudley DY1 1NJ, United Kingdom David Donnelly dave@midlandnetworks.co.uk 44 121 270 8700 Midlands East Midlands Chamber 4004623 187 https:\/\/www.emc-dnl.co.uk\/ 44 333 320 0333 Friars Mill, 1 Bath Lane Mill, Bath Ln, Leicester LE3 5BJ, United Kingdom Ian Morgan OBE FCILT imorgan@trentbarton.co.uk 44 1332388101 Midlands TRI-IT Limited 6561671 4 http:\/\/www.tri-it.co.uk\/ 0121 764 7860 Fairgate House, 205 Kings Rd, Tyseley, Birmingham B11 2AA, United Kingdom Vikash Mohan vikash.mohan@tri-it.co.uk 0121 764 7860 Bedfordshire avecSys - Complete Business IT Solutions 9285251 4 https:\/\/www.avecsys.com\/ 01234 8666888 2-10 St John's Street Bedford, MK42 0DH Dmitry G dmitry@avecsys.com 44 1234866688 Norfolk Beacon IT 10013547 20 https:\/\/www.beaconit.co.uk\/ 01603 905420 Stable 2, White House Farm,Salhouse Road, Norwich,Norfolk, NR13 6LB Ben Wortley ben.wortley@gmail.com 44 1603905420 Hertfordshire Achieve IT Consulting 7291817 3 https:\/\/www.achieveit.uk\/ 020 3004 4186 Churchill Business Centre, Stirling Way, Borehamwood, WD6 2HP | Russell Chesler russell@achieveitconsulting.co.uk 44 8444748798 Nottingham Agilitas IT Solutions Limited 2504382 100 https:\/\/www.agilitas.co.uk\/ 44 (0) 115 919 6000 Solutions House, 6 Glaisdale Pkwy, Nottingham NG8 4GP, United Kingdom Shaun Lynn shaun.lynn@sun.com 44 115 919 6000 Essex Lodge Information Services Ltd 3512980 3 https:\/\/www.lisltd.co.uk\/ 01245 323900 Lodge Information Services LtdLIS HouseMain RoadWoodham FerrersEssexCM3 8RP Adrian Clements acinfo@lisltd.co.uk 44 1245323900 Essex Euro IT Group 9080137 6 https:\/\/euroitgroup.com\/ 44 20 3239 8316 11 Queen\u2019s Road, Brentwood, Essex CM14 4HE England Ian Tidder ian.tidder@computaris.com 44 20 3239 8316 Hertfordshire ITbuilder 4296864 19 https:\/\/www.itbuilder.co.uk\/ 44 333 344 0980 Great Northern Works, Unit 2A Hartham Ln, Hertford SG14 1QW, United Kingdom James Naylor jn@itbuilder.co.uk 44 333 344 0980 Midlands We Solve IT Ltd 4748034 6 http:\/\/www.wesolveit.co.uk\/ 695 8668 52. DUDLEY HOUSE, Millfields Rd, Wolverhampton WV4 6JE, UK Stephen Davies stephen@wesolveit.co.uk 44 121 314 0001 Hertfordshire Cyber Sharp I.T Limited 10653984 2 https:\/\/www.cybersharpit.co.uk\/ 01384 686297 Cyber Sharp I.T Limited, Halesowen, West Midlands &quot; Lisa Eaton &quot; lisa.eaton@cybersharpit.co.uk 44 1384 686297 Midlands &quot; Professional Link Limited &quot; 2393424 11 https:\/\/www.professionallink.co.uk\/ 44 121 456 5115 10th Floor Lyndon House58-62 Hagley Road BirminghamB16 8PE Christopher Scheitlin c_scheitlin@yahoo.com 44 121 456 5115 Midlands Whitebarn IT Services GB740874128 4 https:\/\/www.whitebarn.co.uk\/ 01376 563959 Hitcham, Units 2-3, West Street, Coggeshall, Essex, CO61NS Andrew Short 44 800 032 7996 Suffolk Ad World IT Ltd 7456035 3 http:\/\/adworldit.com\/ 44 (0)20 7193 6879 Ashmeads, School Road, Sudbourne, Woodbridge, Suffolk, IP12 2BE Chris Humphries christopher.humphries@gmail.com 44 20 7193 6879 Kent NGO BUSINESS SERVICES LTD 12258167 2 https:\/\/www.ngoserv.com\/contact-us\/ 44 7731 638052 2 St. Marys Close, Etchinghill, Folkestone, England, CT18 8NX Lawrance Titterton ltitterton@ngoserv.com 44 7731 638052 Midlands MNI Services 4864601 6 https:\/\/www.mnis.co.uk\/ 44 121 248 4440 Branston Court, Branston St, Birmingham B18 6BA, United Kingdom Barry White barry.white@mnis.co.uk 44 844 875 9001 Midlands Kixo IT Solutions 7039917 6 https:\/\/www.kixo.co.uk\/ 44 24 7692 0500 Friars House, Manor House Dr, Coventry CV1 2TE, United Kingdom Ben Y drumdbeat@hotmail.com 44 24 7692 0500 Kent Newenden Associates Ltd 2111170 2 https:\/\/uk.globaldatabase.com\/company\/newenden-associates-ltd 44 (1622) 620800 57 BOWER PLACE, MAIDSTONE, KENT , ME16 8BG , United Kingdom Chris Moore chris@newenden.co.uk 44 1622 620800 Hertfordshire Teknofobes 7520708 1 https:\/\/www.itzero.co.uk\/ 44 20 3327 0201 9 Woodfield Rise, Bushey WD23 4QR, United Kingdom David Feldman david@teknofobes.com 44 20 3327 0201 Midlands My IT Guy Limited 11423920 1 https:\/\/www.myitguy.uk\/ 44 121 274 0378 125 Westfield Rd, King's Heath, Birmingham B14 7SY, United Kingdom Robin Whiting robin@myitguy.uk 44 121 274 0378 Suffolk Kerbury Business Centre 9399089 6 https:\/\/kerbury.co.uk\/ 44 1440 708686 6-12 Piperell Way, Haverhill, Suffolk CB9 8PH, GB Mark Goulding mark@stp.co.uk 44 1440 708686 Kent Kent IT Maintenance Ltd 44 (0) 1580 761 456 8 https:\/\/www.kentit.co.uk\/ 6952231 Kent IT Maintenance , 7 \u2013 8 Raywood Offices Complex, Leacon Lane, Charing, Ashford, Kent TN27 0ET Sonoo Kumar daya_sonoo@yahoo.com 91 120 307 5000 Essex Utilize IT Support 3405211 108 https:\/\/www.utilize.co.uk\/ 44 333 006 9060 Utilize House, Bentalls, Basildon SS14 3BX, United Kingdom Warren Davies warren.davies@utilize.co.uk 44 20 7167 4889 Essex Ontraq Ltd 3577538 3 https:\/\/www.ontraq.com\/ 44 1245 265100 74 Duke St, Chelmsford CM1 1JY, United Kingdom James Day james.day@ontraq.com 44 1245 265100 Essex Interm IT Essex Ltd 5475815 11 http:\/\/intermitessex.co.uk\/ 44 1268 440949 28 Glebelands, South Benfleet, Benfleet SS7 4LT, United Kingdom Richard Spragg RichardSpragg@intermit.co.uk 68106552 Essex Pegasus IT Ltd 6927934 5 https:\/\/pegasusitcomputers.co.uk\/ 44 1206 795493 16 Moorside Business Park, Moorside, Colchester CO1 2ZF, United Kingdom Lorna Sharp lorna@pegasusitsolutions.co.uk 01206 795493 Midlands UK Software Company ltd. 6774120 11 https:\/\/uksoftwarecompany.co.uk\/ 44 121 356 4380 Ground Floor, Suit 1a First Floor, 46 Hylton St, Birmingham B18 6HN, United Kingdom Midlands CodeFirst 10974202 13 https:\/\/www.codefirst.co.uk\/about-codefirst\/ 0121 663 1862 43 Temple Row, Birmingham B2 5LS, United Kingdom Graham Church graham.church@codefirst.eu 44 121 663 1862 Midlands Imobisoft Ltd 6811978 15 https:\/\/imobisoft.co.uk\/ 44 24 7615 8240 HDTI, Puma Way, Coventry CV1 2TT, United Kingdom Syed Byhaqi s.tehseen@imobisoft.co.uk 44 24 7615 8240 Midlands Vector GB Ltd. 6699692 28 https:\/\/www.vector.com\/gb\/en-gb\/#c206600 44 121 788 7900 2480, Regents Court, Birmingham Business Park, The Crescent, West Midlands B37 7YE, United Kingdom James Cooper james.cooper@vector.com 1 401-398-7185 Midlands ITCONTACT LTD 5138291 6 https:\/\/itcontact.co.uk\/ 44 121 455 9226 13 Highfield Rd, Birmingham B15 3DU, United Kingdom St\u00e9phane Jouanin stephane.jouanin@itcontact.fr 33 6 50 14 60 81 Midlands Synium IT 7372850 5 https:\/\/www.synium.co.uk\/ 44 121 663 0203 Synium House, Shallowford Court, High St, Henley-in-Arden B95 5FY, United Kingdom Simon T simon.tonks@synium.co.uk 44 121 663 0203 Midlands OneMSP 10471701 11 https:\/\/www.cloudtango.org\/providers\/6273\/onemsp 0333 577 1555 Carillon House Chapel LaneWythallBirminghamB47 6JX Tom Johnson tom.johnson@onemsp.com 44 7853 777777 Midlands Flywheel IT Services Limited 9938176 17 https:\/\/www.flywheel-it.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 20 3985 8585 GREENBOX, 35, Westonhall Rd, Bromsgrove B60 4AL, United Kingdom John MacDonald john.macdonald@flywheel-it.co.uk 44 20 3954 6510 Hertfordshire Surf Tech IT 9293375 7 https:\/\/surftechit.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 01432 663026 ANGLO HOUSE, Worcester Rd, Stourport-on-Severn DY13 9AW, UK Matthew Parsons m.parsons@surftechit.co.uk 44 330 120 0295 Midlands Kuiper Technology 10665660 23 https:\/\/kuipertech.co.uk\/?utm_source=google-gmb&amp;utm_medium=organic&amp;utm_campaign=kuiper-birmingham-gmb 44 330 058 4684 Unit 4, Leaford Way, Leaford Road, Birmingham B33 9TX, United Kingdom Stuart Hall stuart.hall@kuipertech.co.uk 44 121 783 4477 Midlands faIT UK Limited 4198427 12 https:\/\/www.faituk.com\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 01527 591804 faIT UK LtdLittle Forge RoadRedditch B98 7SF faIT UK fait.uk@faituk.com 44 1527 591804 Midlands BDR Group 12717982 68 https:\/\/bdrgroup.co.uk\/ 0800 975 3000 Caspian House, Timothy's Bridge Rd, Stratford-upon-Avon CV37 9NR, UK Malek Rahimi m.rahimi@bdrgroup.co.uk 44 800 975 3000 Midlands Austin Tovey Ltd 5853051 10 https:\/\/tovey.net\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 07917 418530 26 Captains Hill, Alcester, England, B49 6QW. Austin Tovey austin@tovey.net 07917 418530 Midlands TechTeam 11090932 19 https:\/\/techteam.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 01905 678000 6DG North Datacentre, Birmingham Road,Studley,Warwickshire,B80 7GB James Green james.green@techteam.co.uk 44 844 801 2345 Midlands ATG-IT 3895168 11 https:\/\/www.atg-it.co.uk\/ 01527 570535 Unit 3, Buntsford Park Rd Bromsgrove, WorcestershireUnited Kingdom Francis Davis francis.davis@atg-it.co.uk 44 1527 570535 Midlands Syscomm Ltd 1826787 15 http:\/\/www.syscomm.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 24 7771 2000 Unit 1, Boiler House, Electric Wharf, Coventry CV1 4JU, United Kingdom Cristian Marcelo Parada cp@syscomm.com.ar 54 11 5217-1609 Midlands SyTech IT 9896931 5 https:\/\/sytech-it.com\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 03333 44 66 90 The Nova Centre Keele Innovation And Science Park, Keele, Newcastle Under Lyme, Staffordshire, England, ST5 5AA Darren Kirby darren.kirby@daymen.co.uk 44 1782 202222 Suffolk Tek-nology Solutions Limited 3716988 8 https:\/\/www.tek-nologysolutions.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 0370 350 2552 Tek-nology Solutions Limited121 Suffolk StreetQueenswayBirminghamWest MidlandsB1 1LXUnited Kingdom Kal Bhangu kbhangu@tek-nologysolutions.co.uk 44 370 350 2552 Midlands Next2IT 12538766 2 https:\/\/www.next2it.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 330 133 2202 5, Shireview Rd, Woodseaves, Stafford ST20 0PH, United Kingdom Deklan V. deklan@next2it.co.uk 44 330 133 2202 Midlands WiFi MAPS Ltd 8084069 1 https:\/\/mapswireless.com\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 7399 356 189 29 Waterloo Road, Wolverhampton, WV1 4DJ Craig Shaw craig.shaw@mapswireless.com N\/A Midlands Spire BMS Ltd 4 http:\/\/www.spirebms.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 0330 205 0250 County House St Mary\u2019s StreetWorcesterWR1 1HBUnited Kingdom Sean Mimnagh sean.mimnagh@spirebms.co.uk N\/A Midlands Zephi IT Solutions 12580590 6 https:\/\/www.zephiitsolutions.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 1543 523950 Hawkeyard Estate, Rugeley WS15 1PU, United Kingdom Aaron Roach MCIM aaron.roach@zephi.co.uk 44 7909 417700 Midlands The 848 Group 7393725 79 https:\/\/848.co\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 344 984 8848 Unit 3, Marconi Gate, Staffordshire Technical Park, Stafford ST18 0FZ, United Kingdom Kerry B kerry@848.co 44 344 984 8848 Midlands Vibrant Networks 8894011 3 https:\/\/www.vibrant-networks.co.uk\/?utm_source=Cloudtango&amp;utm_medium=referral&amp;utm_campaign=Cloudtango 44 1922 612387 Grove Terrace, Walsall WS1 2NE, United Kingdom Amrik Singh AmrikSingh@vibrantnetworks.co.uk 44 1922 612387 Midlands PLAN-NET 2459337 76 https:\/\/acora.com\/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw18WKBhCUARIsAFiW7JwxFLrop9PBvoy6kYZ8lLafUqv2FRFwlV3G_O4VpfKR0QDaaoseGtIaAst6EALw_wcB 44 1922 612387 Acora House, Albert Drive, Burgess Hill RH15 9TN, United Kingdom Jerry Cave jerry.cave@plan-net.co.uk 44 20 3826 9800 Suffolk Acora - Managed IT Services 2348923 276 https:\/\/acora.com\/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw18WKBhCUARIsAFiW7JwxFLrop9PBvoy6kYZ8lLafUqv2FRFwlV3G_O4VpfKR0QDaaoseGtIaAst6EALw_wcB 44 20 3974 8812 Acora House, Albert Drive, Burgess Hill RH15 9TN, United Kingdom David Rabson david.rabson@acora.com 44 1444 221123 Hertfordshire LogicBarn 7296830 3 https:\/\/www.logicbarn.com\/ 0333 996 0112 4 Old Park Lane, Mayfair, London W1K 1QW Matthew Hadfield matty.hadfield113@gmail.com 44 7854 390010 Norfolk Tecplicity Logo 12089654 1 https:\/\/tecplicity.co.uk\/voip-phone-systems\/ 01603 828800 The Beeches, The St, Claxton, Norwich NR14 7AS, UK Jonathan Miller jonathan@tecplicity.co.uk 44 1603 828800 Midlands Serif Systems Limited 2926218 7 https:\/\/www.serif.net\/ 0113 238 1590 7 Archbold House, Albert Rd, Morley LS27 8TT, UK George Smith gsmith@serif.net 44 113 238 1590 Norfolk gallop digital 10792567 1 http:\/\/gallop.digital\/ 44 1753 5209522 4B, Newman &amp; Co, church street, diss, Norfolk, UK, IP22 4DD Peter Harper peter@gallop.digital N\/A Kent Weyerman Associates Ltd. 9371933 1 http:\/\/www.weyermanassociates.co.uk\/ N\/A England, Folkestone, Flat 7, 28, Earls Avenue, CT20 2HE Steve Goddard steve.goddard2000@btinternet.com N\/A Nortfolk TNE Group Ltd 11902916 1 https:\/\/www.tnegroup.co.uk\/ 07800 527953 Norwich, Norfolk IP24 2EN, United Kingdom Matt Norman matt@tnegroup.co.uk N\/A Kent Foredia Limited 7204517 1 https:\/\/foredia.uk\/ 44 1233 808033 15 Repton Avenue, Ashford, Kent TN23 3RX, United Kingdom Matthew Forest matthew.forest@foredia.uk 07957 313298 Kent Mistral Promotions LTD 8404840 1 http:\/\/www.mistralpromotionsltd.co.uk\/ 01892 574649 50 St Johns Road, Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, Kent TN4 9NY, United Kingdom Rojin Mathew info@mistralpromotionsltd.co.uk 01892 574649 Hertfordshire Crises Control 7965328 11 https:\/\/www.crises-control.com\/?utm_source=linkedin&amp;utm_medium=page&amp;utm_campaign=maindescription 44 (0) 20 8584 1385 19 Heather Park Dr, Wembley, Greater London, HA0 1SS, United Kingdom Shalen Sehgal shalen@crisescontrol.com 44 844 567 8987 Hertfordshire ECR Global 3799835 38 https:\/\/www.ecrglobal.com\/ 44 (0) 20 8370 6700 ECR Global Ltd, Brosnan House, Byng Drive, Potters Bar, Herts EN6 1UR Craig Ellis cellis@ecrglobal.com 44 20 8370 6700 Hertfordshire Corethree 7054350 23 https:\/\/www.corethree.net\/ 44 (0) 845 557 0475 Suite 14, Building 3 Hatters Lane, Croxley Green Business Park, Watford, WD18 8YG. Ashley Murdoch ashley.murdoch@corethree.net 44 845 557 0475 Hertfordshire DocCentrics 6467442 10 https:\/\/doccentrics.com\/ 0844 56789 87 DocCentrics Stamford House Primett Road Stevenage,Herts,SG1 3EE Simon Howell simon.howell@doccentrics.com 44 844 567 8987 Nottingham ARVITENI 12255133 2 https:\/\/www.arviteni.co.uk\/ 0333 090 4793 First Floor Suite, Shire Hall, High Pavement, Nottingham, NG1 1HN Alex Sais alex.sais@bulletproof-it.co.uk 0333 090 4793 Suffolk DPS Tech 6863083 5 https:\/\/www.dpstech.co.uk\/ 01473 283283 First Floor, 3 Cromwell Court Greyfriars Road Ipswich Suffolk IP1 1UP Dean Willingham dean@dpstech.co.uk- 01473 283283 Suffolk CPW Computing ltd 4360368 5 https:\/\/www.cpwc.co.uk\/ 01449 723650 Suite 14, Norfolk House, Williamsport Way, Needham Market, Suffolk, IP6 8RW Elliott Sheppard elliott_sheppard@hotmail.com 01449 723650 Hertfordshire MicroNet InfoTech 5006536 24 https:\/\/www.mnit.co.uk\/ 44 1923 800 614 Watford Metro Centre Unit 32, Dwight Rd Watford, WD18 9SB United Kingdom Mayur Mehta m.mehta@mnit.co.uk 44 1923 800 614 Hertfordshire Halian 3207072 271 https:\/\/halian.com\/ 442037144873 FAB Office 54-56 Victoria Street St.Albans, Herts AL1 3HZ Levon Antonian levon.antonian@halian.com 442037144873 Hertfordshire CSP I.T 4147394 26 https:\/\/www.csp.uk.com\/ 01923 800 800 Unit 105 Park House 15 \u2013 19 Greenhill Crescent Watford WD18 8PH Stijn Petry stijn@bric.solutions 01923 800 800 Bedfordshire Trillium Flow Technologies 869208 756 https:\/\/www.trilliumflow.com\/ 1 832 200 6220 Westpoint House, 5 Redwood Place, East Kilbride, Glasgow, G74 5PB, UK David Paradis davidaparadis@gmail.com 1 832-200-6220 Bedfordshire Lynx Networks PLC 3136174 26 https:\/\/www.lynxnetworks.co.uk\/ 01908 633833 28 \u2013 29 Clarke Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, ALAN BULLEN alan.bullen@lynxnetworks.co.uk 44 1908 633810 Hertfordshire Insight UK 2579852 27 https:\/\/www.uk.insight.com\/ 44 (0)344 846 3333 Technology Building Insight Campus Terry Street, Sheffield S9 2BU United Kingdom Ken Lamneck klamneck@insight.com 1 480-902-1001 kent Cloudscape IT Support 4565979 5 https:\/\/cloudscapeit.co.uk\/ 0207 952 8123 Cloudscape IT 47 Oxford Drive Magdalen Street London SE1 2FB Mike Casey mcasey@cloudscape.it 44 844 770 0199 kent DSI Ltd 2599631 11 https:\/\/dsiltd.co.uk\/ 44 (0) 845 006 7777 10 Mulberry Court, Bourne Ind. Park, Bourne Rd, Crayford, Kent, DA1 4BF Mike Lyons mike.lyons@dsiltd.co.uk 44 1322 520480 kent Primary Technologies (S.E.) LTD 7576841 8 https:\/\/www.primarytechnologies.co.uk\/ 44 (0)1303 847 390 Unit 17, The Glenmore Centre, Pent Road, Shearway Business Park, Folkestone, Kent. CT19 4RJ Lewis Purver lewis.purver@primarytechnologies.co.uk 44 (0)1303 847 390 kent Embridge Consulting 9600193 49 https:\/\/embridgeconsulting.com\/ 44 (0)1474 555505 Kent Space, Springhead Enterprise Park Northfleet Kent DA11 8HJ Emma O'Brien emma.obrien@embridgeconsulting.com 44 1474 555505 kent Millennium Consulting 7753022 40 https:\/\/millenniumconsulting.com\/about\/ 44 (0) 845 604 4262 75 High Street, Hythe, Kent CT21 5JQ Philip Keet phil.keet@millenniumconsulting.co.uk 44 845 604 4262 kent IT Outcomes - IT Company Folkestone 9306431 9 https:\/\/www.itoutcomes.com\/ 44 330 332 6262 Stone Street, Folkestone CT18 8DJ, United Kingdom Jason Bramley jason@itoutcomes.com 44 330 332 6362 Hertfordshire Intenda UK Ltd 5362414 115 https:\/\/intenda.tech\/ 44 1707 367620 Gate House, Fretherne Rd, Welwyn Garden City AL8 6NS, United Kingdom Jacobus van Niekerk jacovn@intenda.uk.com 44 845 468 3632 Hertfordshire UK IT Services 6335039 7 https:\/\/www.ukitservice.co.uk\/?utm_source=google-local&amp;utm_medium=organic&amp;utm_content=fitz 44 20 3034 1059 28 Old Gloucester St, London WC1N 3AX, United Kingdom Maytal D. m@ukitservice.co.uk 44 20 3355 4939 Hertfordshire Integrated Computer Services, Inc. 10699871 24 https:\/\/www.icssnj.com\/ 44 7757 630323 45 Balmoral Cl, Broadwater, Stevenage SG2 8UA, United Kingdom Mike Cardella mike@icssnj.com 44 7757 630323 Hertfordshire iTECH Support Ltd 7570643 7 https:\/\/www.itechsupport.net\/ 44 1923 674091 Unit 22, Empire centre, Imperial Way, Watford WD24 4YH, United Kingdom Lee Maloney lee.maloney@serviceit.uk.com 44 1923 674091 Hertfordshire CCOMM IT Solutions Limited 6762848 11 https:\/\/www.ccommit.co.uk\/ 44 1727 758008 Alban House, 12 Parkway, Porters Wood, St Albans AL3 6PA, United Kingdom Andrew Yeo andrew.yeo@ccommit.co.uk 44 1727 758008 Hertfordshire Twin Systems Limited 3186632 10 https:\/\/www.twinsystems.com\/ 44 345 313 1483 13 Cedar Court Parkway, St Albans AL3 6PA, United Kingdom Paul Songaila paul.songaila@twinsystems.com 44 345 313 1483 Hertfordshire Join-IT Ltd 8693836 10 https:\/\/join-it.co.uk\/ 44 20 3468 8180 14 Tewin Rd, Welwyn Garden City AL7 1BW, United Kingdom David Relf davidr@join-it.co.uk 44 7967 190052 Hertfordshire Mustard IT Support 12411327 3 https:\/\/www.mustardit.co.uk\/ 020 3962 1887 Mustard IT 4th Floor Holden House, 57 Rathbone Place, London, W1T 1JU Alex Viall alex@mustardit.co.uk 44 20 7043 4382 Hertfordshire 1st IT 10832316 8 https:\/\/1st-it.com\/ 44 20 3904 4118 215-221 Borough High St, London SE1 1JA, United Kingdom Ravi Rayarel ravi.reayarel@1st-it.com 44 20 7250 8080 Hertfordshire Paralogic IT 4569856 12 https:\/\/www.paralogic.co.uk\/ 44 1844 293330 Bell Business Park, 3, Smeaton Cl, Aylesbury HP19 8JR, United Kingdom Adam Plant adam.plant@paralogic.co.uk 44 1844 293330 Hertfordshire Computacenter UK 1584718 11,760 https:\/\/www.computacenter.com\/uk 44 1707 631000 Hatfield Business Park, Hatfield Avenue, Hatfield AL10 9TW, United Kingdom Jurgen Strijkers jurgen_strijkers@computacenter.com 44 1707 631000 Hertfordshire Ocado Technology 7098618 6,993 https:\/\/www.ocadogroup.com\/careers 44 1707 227800 Buildings One &amp; Two, trident place, Hatfield AL10 9UL, United Kingdom James X. Matthews james.x.@ocadotechnology.com 44 1707 227800 Hertfordshire Assign IT Ltd 4289206 15 https:\/\/www.assign-it.co.uk\/ 44 1727 843888 Unit 21, The I O Centre, Hearle Way, Hatfield AL10 9EW, United Kingdom Carmine Delcore carmine.delcore@assign-it.co.uk 44 1727 843888 Hertfordshire Storm Technologies Limited 3998372 161 https:\/\/www.storm-technologies.com\/ 44 (0) 1923 80 10 80 Unit 2 The Blvd, Blackmoor Ln, Watford WD18 8YW, United Kingdom Igwemoh Jacob igwemoh@gmail.com 44 (0) 1923 80 10 80 Hertfordshire PayByPhone UK Ltd 5060103 20 https:\/\/paybyphone.co.uk\/ 44 1707 808833 17a The Broadway, Hatfield AL9 5HZ, United Kingdom Jonny Combe jonny.combe@btinternet.com 44 1707 808833 Hertfordshire TechSolvers IT Support London 6841259 13 https:\/\/www.itsupportlondon.org.uk\/ 44 1923 537247 Vernon Rd, Bushey WD23 2JL, United Kingdom Thomas Mitchell tom@techsolvers.co.uk 44 1923 537247 Hertfordshire Sovereign Business Integration Group plc 7807835 39 http:\/\/www.sovereigndc.com\/ 44 (0)20 8216 3333 Metro Point, 1A Chalk Ln, Barnet EN4 9JQ, United Kingdom Richard Barker rbarker@sovereign-plc.co.uk 44 20 8216 3333 Hertfordshire CAE Technology Services 2685146 381 https:\/\/www.thisiscae.com\/ 44 1923 477600 9 Colonial Way, Watford WD24 4PT, United Kingdom Justin Harling justin.harling@thisiscae.com 44 1923 477600 Hertfordshire Blackhawk Network Europe 7956446 585 https:\/\/blackhawknetwork.com\/uk-en 44 20 7419 8100 Westside, London Rd, Hemel Hempstead HP3 9TD, United Kingdom Heather Rogers heather.rogers@grg.com 44 20 7419 8100\">Download this episode.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.omnycontent.com\/d\/playlist\/aaea4e69-af51-495e-afc9-a9760146922b\/6081eee7-c459-4e12-a1ab-aadc000fc4a7\/413a6904-4d72-4be8-9421-aadc000fc4ba\/podcast.rss\">Subscribe to the podcast in the media player of your choice.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><em>Special thanks to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/keelanohara.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Keelan O\u2019Hara<\/a>&nbsp;for editing the podcast!<\/em><\/p>\n<h3>Transcript<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: All right, so tell me if this has happened to you guys. You&#8217;re lying in bed at night, right before you doze off to sleep, you have this thought that right now, tens of millions of people across the country, at this exact moment, same as you, are lying down on these rectangular shaped mattresses and are about to be unconscious for the next 8 hours while having hallucinations. That&#8217;s what sleep is when you think about it. When you think about it that way, sleep&#8217;s kind of weird. It&#8217;s kind of weird that we sleep the way we do. I think we take it for granted that you sleep from about 10 until 8 or so, if you wake up late.<\/p>\n<p>Our guest today makes the point that this hasn&#8217;t always been the case, and that for most of human&#8217;s history, sleep has actually been very unique to communities and to individuals. It wasn&#8217;t until about the 19th century, until the whole world basically got on this sleep schedule where you sleep from 10 o&#8217; clock at night until about 7 o&#8217; clock in the morning. You work during the day, no naps. Then you repeat the process. Before then, sleep was much more individualistic. It was unique to different communities. This whole radical transformation of sleep has had profound changes effects on the way we approach life, work, and sleep.<\/p>\n<p>Our guest is named Matthew Wolf-Meyer, he&#8217;s a professor of anthropology at University of California Santa Cruz. He&#8217;s the author of a very fascinating book called The Slumbering Masses. It&#8217;s basically a cultural study an anthropological look at sleep and why we sleep the way we do. In this podcast we discuss when the transformation to sleep as we know today happened. We discuss the medicalization of sleep, and all the things we do to improve our sleep with over the counter medications. Also, the things we use to jolt ourselves away so we can stick to this work schedule that we have. Either through coffee, tea, now energy drinks.<\/p>\n<p>Fascinating discussion, I think you&#8217;ll really like it. We even get into what you can do if you have a sleep schedule, where it just doesn&#8217;t fit with the norm. The working norm, or the school schedule. What you can do to work with that. Great discussion, think you&#8217;ll get a lot out of it, without further ado, Matthew Wolf-Meyer and the slumbering masses.<\/p>\n<p>Matthew Wolf-Meyer, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Thanks, I&#8217;m glad to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: All right, so, your book, <em>The Slumbering Masses<\/em> is a book about sleep. It&#8217;s different from a lot of the books that have come out about sleep in the past 10 years I&#8217;d say. Where it&#8217;s all about how to get better sleep, the science of sleep, your book is a cultural study of sleep. The sociology of sleep. What made you want to research the anthropology of sleep in America?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: It depends how far back you want to go. We&#8217;ll probably talk about a lot of the stuff as we go. I was always a problems sleeper, so as a kid, throughout middle school and high school, I had pretty, what I thought were abnormal sleeping times. Going to sleep really late, having to wake up for school, needing to take naps during the day. Then, when I was in college, it gave me the opportunity to tailor a schedule around my sleep. What ended up happening was I got a job working third shift. I worked form like 10 pm until 8 am. Which was okay with me.<\/p>\n<p>Then I would go to school from 8 until 10 o&#8217; clock in the morning. Then go to school from 5 until 8 o&#8217; clock at night. That all totally worked. At the time I had a bunch of coworkers who just could not handle the schedule. Whenever they were off work. On their weekends, they would end up trying to sleep like everybody else did. It was a decade later, as I started to do the research, that I realized how bad of an idea that actually is. At the time I was always attune to different kinds of sleeping.<\/p>\n<p>I always really enjoyed, this was in metro Detroit, at 4 o&#8217; clock in the morning, just being able to step out into the middle of an otherwise very busy street and seeing the world sleeping around and being the one person that was awake. When it came time to actually develop a research project much later, I had initially thought that what I was going to do is write a book about night work. Not just people doing factory work in the middle of the night, but all of the stuff that happens at night in order to make society work throughout the days.<\/p>\n<p>Security guards, police, ambulance drivers, nurses, ER doctors, sanitation workers, construction workers. I thought that I would tell this big story about labor at night. In my initial idea about that project, I thought that I would write one chapter that would be about what everybody else is doing. Everyone else would be sleeping, the way that I would get into that would be going into a sleep clinic. Just by sheer happenstance, there was a piece in the New York Times magazine profiling a sleep center near where I was a gradate student. I got in touch with the director and they invited me over for lunch one day and gave me the tour.<\/p>\n<p>Probably within 10 minutes of being there, I thought, this is the real project. I can do everything that I want to do, just by talking about sleep in American society. The doctors and the researchers that I was spending time with there were all really interested in having an anthropologist hang out with them. They had a bunch of questions, I didn&#8217;t know the answer to any of their questions at the time, but I figured that they could task me with answering the questions that they had. It was off to the races from that point. As soon as I got into it, I was like obviously this is the project. The other thing, like you kind of mentioned in the intro.<\/p>\n<p>Nobody has written this book, if you look at the literature out there, there&#8217;s a lot of self helpy stuff, there&#8217;s a lot of popular science books that are like, this is why we sleep. Although nobody actually really knows why we sleep. The stuff written by scientists. There&#8217;s a bunch of books by scientist about sleep, but they&#8217;re really uncritical. They accept sleep as it is. I figured there&#8217;s a huge window here that needs to be jumped through. I was the guy who jumped through that window.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Very good. One of the main points you make in the book is, Americans today, sort of take for granted our current sleeping schedule. We all assume that since time immemorial people have went to bed between the hours of 10, around then, and they woke up at 7 or so, by 7 to go to work. You make the case that no, that&#8217;s not how sleep was, until about the 19th century. What was sleep like before what&#8217;s called consolidated sleep? The 8 hours.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: One of the things that got me started on the project was this book written by a historian named Roger Ekerch called At the Day&#8217;s Close. At the end of the book, there is a chapter about, basically a hypothesis that he has that people before industrialization slept in what we now refer to as a bi faced model. He was looking at the UK and some historical documents that he had. What he was hinting at is that people would go to sleep around sundown, they would sleep for a few hours. They would wake up in the middle of the night for a period that could be anywhere between an hour and 4 hours. They would go back to sleep and then wake up around dawn to go to work.<\/p>\n<p>When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense, because it&#8217;s not like night time is 8 hours long. Even if it is some of the time, it&#8217;s not consistently 8 hours long, nor is it 8 hours long everywhere around the world all the time. The idea that sleep and darkness are necessarily tied together is just wrong on the face of it, right? When you think about the availability of electric light, especially the working classes, don&#8217;t have cheap accessible electric light.<\/p>\n<p>In some cases, after the turn of the 20th century. There&#8217;s that set of circumstances. I started to look at the historical record in the United States, and particularly the medical monographs and medical pamphlets and medical articles that are published at the end of the 1700&#8217;s through the 1800&#8217;s. What people are identifying is exactly this pattern of sleep. Right? That people are going to sleep around sundown, they sleep for a few hours, wake up, go back to sleep.<\/p>\n<p>They sometimes refer to it as first sleep and second sleep or first nap and second nap. First slumber, second slumber, that kind of thing. The reason why they&#8217;re talking about it is because it&#8217;s a problem for the new industrial work schedule. Historically what&#8217;s happening is that people are moving from the country side, where they&#8217;re working either on their family farm, somebody else&#8217;s family farm or in a trade that&#8217;s probably owned by someone that they know very intimately because they were living in small settings to big urban centers where they&#8217;re one of thousands of strangers working in a factory for somebody that they have no relationship to, right?<\/p>\n<p>In their old work situations, work times vary, if you need to take a nap, you can probably take a nap. If you need to go home early because there&#8217;s an emergency, no problem. When you&#8217;re working for a large factory where everybody&#8217;s anonymous, any of those kinds of variances are fireable offences, right? There&#8217;s a long line of people just waiting to take those jobs. People are put into these consolidated work days that are structured by the availability of free sunlight. Electric light&#8217;s not available for most of these factories.<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s some gas lighting, but generally the way the factories are operating is they open at dawn, they close at dusk, and there&#8217;s one shift. Everybody works from dawn until dusk. What happens to people&#8217;s sleep is that they&#8217;re so exhausted at the end of the day that they consolidate their sleep. The idea of consolidated sleep is really something that&#8217;s based on a new model of exhaustion. If you were working in a way where you could take a nap whenever you needed to, you&#8217;re never as exhausted when you have to stay awake for 16 hours in a stretch.<\/p>\n<p>What happens in the medical literature, is all these doctors are identifying the biphasic model as being a problem. They start to refer to is as insomnia. They start to think about ways to treat that problem. There&#8217;s a lot of scare tactics involved too. They&#8217;re really trying to shame people from sleeping in a biphasic way. You really see form basically the beginning of American medicine and American industrial capitalism, this tie between medicine and capitalism. Shaping what workers are supposed to do and how they operate.<\/p>\n<p>The thing is that consolidated model of the work day links up with the consolidated model of the school day. For the working classes, what do you do with your kids? You have to send them somewhere. The state basically steps in and gives public education to the working classes in a way that had never been available before. Kids are going to school at the same time that their parents are at work. You slowly see over the course of the 19th century, all of these institutions that we take for granted in American social life abiding by the same set of ideas about time.<\/p>\n<p>By the turn of the 20th century, and this is really the beginning of sleep science as a science. The earliest guy, whose name is Nathaniel Cliteman. He&#8217;s a professor of physiology at the University of Chicago. He&#8217;s starting to do research on sleep and his assumption is that people sleep in a consolidated way. He&#8217;s carrying it into the basis of the science. He&#8217;s not allowing napping or variations in sleeping schedules. It&#8217;s really what you&#8217;re testing is consolidated sleep. What happens is he develops a model of circadian rhythms that&#8217;s based on consolidated sleep rather than biphasic sleep.<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s the model of circadian rhythms that everybody uses to this day. We really don&#8217;t know what human sleep would look like outside of the context of some industrial capitalism and the structure around time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I want to get back to your point about insomnia and sleep disorder. I think that&#8217;s really interesting. What I found fascinating in your book is that yeah, you point out that the way we sleep is primarily economically and productivity driven. You made an interesting point about how Ben Franklin was one of the early guys, early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise. One of the things he advocated for consolidated sleep was that it saved money on candles. He went to France and he saw that they wasted all this candle wick partying and carousing in the night. They didn&#8217;t get up in the day to go be productive. He said, if they just slept 8 hours, they would save on candles.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Right. If they just slept when it&#8217;s dark, rather than having to light everything. The great thing about that essay of his is that he does the math to figure out how much it costs to burn, something like 40,000 candles a week. Which is an insane amount of candles. If you&#8217;re a French aristocrat, apparently that&#8217;s what you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, this consolidated sleep model, we take for granted, it was because of cultural and economic changes in American. Going from an agrarian to an industrial economy. You make the point that this American way of sleeping has spread to other countries. Can you talk a little bit about how our idea of sleeping has spread across the world?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: In 2 ways primarily. First, like I was just talking about in the science, what happens, is scientific models that are invented in the United States get exported elsewhere. You would think that societies where there&#8217;s long standing napping traditions like Spain and their siesta culture. Like China, like Taiwan, like Italy. That they would have sleep scientists working under different assumptions, but in fact they just buy into the American model whole hog. It really shapes the science and medicine of sleep around the world.<\/p>\n<p>Secondarily it&#8217;s structured around ideas around capitalist work time. We&#8217;re recently, maybe not that recently anymore. 10 years ago, in the early stages of the European union, Spain came under a lot of fire, in part from conservative movements within Spain, about getting rid of the siesta, so that they would be more productive like Germany and France and England. What they do in order to make that happen is they pass laws that all state agencies like the postal service only operates between 9 and 5 o&#8217; clock.<\/p>\n<p>Everybody else has to sync up to that time. We see that kind of synchronization pressure happen in a variety of ways. One of the things that I was really interested in is the synchronization between the United States and call centers in India and the Philippines too. What we&#8217;ve exported to them in order to harness there labor is our calendar and our work week. They get synced up in a kind of inverted way to our work time, so that they&#8217;re awake while we&#8217;re awake. They&#8217;re asleep while everybody else in their society is awake.<\/p>\n<p>They abide by our holidays. Our work week, if you look at how it maps on to their work week, is ours different. Yet they&#8217;re working on their Sundays in order to be available on our Mondays. There&#8217;s really pervasive in subtle ways that our ideas about sleep have structured other societies.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Going back to this idea of sleeping disorders, because before sleep science, there really wasn&#8217;t sleep disorders. Insomnia didn&#8217;t really exist because people were in a biphasic model. The point in the book, or the case that sleeping disorders aren&#8217;t so much, well they are a health issue, but they&#8217;re also a social problem. That&#8217;s the thing that drives people to sleep centers and to medication. Can you explain that a little bit? How are sleep disorders social problems?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: One really quick thing, we actually have pretty good descriptions of a lot of sleep disorders, that goes back at least to 1820. There&#8217;s a Scottish Physician named Robert McNash who writes this book called The Philosophy of Sleep. He is basically coming up with descriptions for insomnia and narcolepsy and drowsiness of various kinds. He basically gets written out of the history of sleep science and medicine. I&#8217;m not entirely sure why. I think part of it is that by the conditions of the 1820&#8217;s all of these kinds of medical experiences are very, very rare.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s not until the 1840&#8217;s and really the 1880&#8217;s that something like insomnia is something that&#8217;s generalization to broad spots of the population and that medicine is more and more available to people more broadly. In terms of that kind of how our sleep disorders, social disorders probably the best examples are the ones that are about schedules for sleep interfering for work and for school. For example, one of the stories that I often tell, and I&#8217;ll tell again, is that at the sleep clinic, they would often see adolescents or teenagers who had problems waking up for public school time.<\/p>\n<p>They couldn&#8217;t get to school by 7:30 in the morning, it was probably more like 10 o&#8217; clock. What they had done is figured out what the school start times for all of the schools in the area were. They would figure out what an individual student would wake up around and what kind of sleep they would need. They would recommend them to particular schools. There were a bunch of kids who couldn&#8217;t wake up until 10 o&#8217; clock in the morning who went to Catholic school despite not being Catholic, because it fit their sleep schedule.<\/p>\n<p>The alternative is that you end up having to wake up to go to school at 7:30 and you&#8217;re a teenager who needs provigil or something else in order to stay awake. Or drink coffee or whatever. Your sleeping problem is really a kind of mismatch between your biological desire for sleep and the institutional times that are normative. If we just had different institutional times, or even flexible institutional times, then you would see far fewer sleep disorders in society.<\/p>\n<p>Which doesn&#8217;t mean that narcolepsy would go away, there are very clear biological conditions that lead to narcolepsy. It&#8217;s always a challenge. You could have more tolerant institutions that would allow people to be sleepy at all sorts of different times of the day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: We&#8217;ll get back to that. I want to get back to that, what we can do about our different sleeping schedules and trying to fit into work and school. You also made the point that in the past 10 years there&#8217;s been this proliferation of medications to get us awake and to put us to sleep. A lot of people are on this viscous cycle where they&#8217;ll take an energy drink to wake up or a pot of coffee. Then they keep drinking during the day, so they stay awake. Then at night, they take some sort of medicine to help them fall asleep. What&#8217;s going on there? Is this something that&#8217;s just recent or was this something that started a century ago? Or decades ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: This seems pretty recent. It seems like a real intensification of things that have been happening for a long time. It&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s totally new, but the intensity of it is pretty new. One of my favorite books that I&#8217;ll plug is called Sweetness in Power, by an anthropologist named Sidney Mince. The story that he tells is that industrialization in Europe really depends on exporting sugar and coffee and tea from the Caribbean, in order to keep workers awake throughout the day. Right? The idea of tea time in Britain is really based on the idea that you could either take a nap or you drink some caffeine at that point in the day.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve lost taking those napes and accepted having some caffeine in the afternoon in order to stay awake for the rest of the work day right? Coffee or caffenation really and sugar have always been tied to labor as we know it. The way that we&#8217;re medicalizing the sleep and kind of alertness these days is much more intense. You can just think about the widespread popularity of Starbucks. 20 years ago, there were not coffee shops the way that there are now, right? Now there&#8217;s Starbucks everywhere. This incitement to always be caffeinated is something that&#8217;s really pervasive right?<\/p>\n<p>If you look at the numbers about people who have problems sleeping at night, somewhere like a third of Americans, the numbers change a little bit, but it&#8217;s a third to almost a half of Americans complain about problems falling asleep or staying asleep in any given year. People have at least intermittent insomnia. There&#8217;s more and more people who are using off label sleep aids, so Tylenol PM rather than Lunesta or Ambien, or NyQuil. Which is a terrible idea, but there are a variety of ways that people are helping themselves get to sleep and also keeping themselves awake throughout the day.<\/p>\n<p>It becomes this vicious cycle because if you&#8217;re taking more and more Ambien, you need more and more coffee to offset the debt that you&#8217;re accruing. What&#8217;s sometimes referred to as sleep drunkenness, that you wake up and you&#8217;re still sleepy so you need more and more coffee. There are stories in the book about this one guy who reports to his sleep doctor that he drinks something like 4 pots of coffee a day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Like 5 pots yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: That&#8217;s 16 cups of coffee a day, right? That&#8217;s a profound amount of caffeine to be putting into your system.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: The assumption is that we need to do it in order to meet the work needs that we have, right? The alternative might be that you have workplace napping. Instead of having coffee free for everybody, that you give people a place to go take a nap. There&#8217;s some work places that have experimented with that, but the big problem if they run into is that people don&#8217;t want to be the napper. They don&#8217;t want to be the guy who&#8217;s sleeping at his desk, or in some cases what they&#8217;ll do is they&#8217;ll take an office and they&#8217;ll turn it into a napping space.<\/p>\n<p>You don&#8217;t want to be the guy that&#8217;s going into the napping space or coming out of the napping space. A lot of the people that I talk to about napping at work, they&#8217;re like, &#8220;I just will get in my car, go to the nearest fast food place, and sleep in the parking lot. Rather than have my coworkers see me sleep.&#8221; There&#8217;s really, we need an attitude shift about sleeping in some respects.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I think it&#8217;s funny about NyQuil is that they have ZZZquil now. Everyone&#8217;s just taking this to go to sleep, they don&#8217;t really have the flu of a cold. Let&#8217;s just make something with alcohol or whatever that drug is that makes you sleepy. I think it&#8217;s interesting with the nap thing in businesses that&#8217;s sort of becoming a thing. It&#8217;s not because businesses are, they want to take care of their employees, they&#8217;re doing it for productivity. I think it&#8217;s kind of ironic, decades ago, they&#8217;re like no napping, you need to work, be productive. Now they&#8217;re saying, nap because you&#8217;re going to be more productive and we can get more out of you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: That&#8217;s the paradox of it, is that you as an employee might really want to take a nap. What employers have discovered is that if you take that nap, they&#8217;ll get way more labor out of you for free. If you&#8217;re a salaried employee, by 5 o&#8217; clock, you just want to go home. If you take a nap at 2:30, and you wake up at 3, you&#8217;re good until 7 or 8 o&#8217; clock at night, right? Maybe even later than that. A lot of businesses realize that they can get more work out of people just by giving them a nap allowance, pretty much. I had also talked to a bunch of people at a law firm where they had a napping facility and they all realized that they were self exploiting.<\/p>\n<p>They had started staying later and later, and they collectively decided to stop using the napping facilities. They just wanted to go home. There is this kind of damned if you do, damned if you don&#8217;t around the workplace nap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Besides using medication for off label uses, Tylenol PM or NyQuil to go to sleep. There&#8217;s also a lot of entrepreneurs, you read about this a lot, entrepreneurs, business executives, high powered attorneys who are taking very powerful stimulating drugs that are used for people who have severe sleep disorders, like Providgil or Medaphenol. Not because they have a problem with sleep or waking up, they just want to stay awake longer so they can get more work done.<\/p>\n<p>Have you looked into, there&#8217;s a cult of Medaphenol on the internet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Yeah, and you know students talk about it all the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Among my students, I&#8217;ve seen over the last 10 years, total ignorance to Provigil, to widespread knowledge about it and sometimes use of it. Ritalin drugs, for a long time, only people with Ritalin use those drugs, and now it&#8217;s like, everybody does it during exams right? There&#8217;s a lot of people who swear by Provigil and the new version of it which is called Newvigil. It&#8217;s used by the military to keep people awake for a while. It&#8217;s expensive. I think one of the real challenges around it is that what we see in the off label pharmeceuticalization of every day life.<\/p>\n<p>Some of these things are available to certain classes of people, and they&#8217;re not available to other classes of people. Sure, if you&#8217;re an elite business person, you can get your doctor to write you a prescription for Newvigil, but most of us don&#8217;t have access to that, right? Instead, we drink a bunch of caffeine to keep up with people who are using that kind of drug. Nobody really knows what the long term effects of drugs like that are to them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah, because it&#8217;s only been back like 10 years ago right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Yeah, even the military has kind of backed away from using it quite so much because they&#8217;re not sure what the effects of it are going to be. It&#8217;s a new kind of stimulant for the central nervous system. There&#8217;s some doubts about what it&#8217;s effects will be. In some cases, what people might be doing is getting some kind of gain in the short term, but really facing neurological problems in the long term. We just kind of have to wait and see.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, well speaking of this division between individuals who can afford drugs to keep them awake and be super productive and individuals who can&#8217;t. Let&#8217;s talk about the future of sleep. You kind of allude to this a little in your book. No one really knows the future of sleep, but it seems like there&#8217;s this push to end sleep. Right? Amongst a certain group of people so they can be super productive all the time. What is the future of sleep? Is that going to happen? Are we going to genetically modify ourselves where we don&#8217;t need sleep anymore?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: I think the future of sleep is to keep asking about the future of sleep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: It&#8217;s one of the things that I track in the book. People have been asking about the future of sleep since at least the 20th century. There&#8217;s early stuff about how do you maximize your sleep. Can you learn a foreign language in your sleep? Which, you still see people talking about, can you learn while you&#8217;re sleeping, not really. Can we get rid of sleep all together? Probably not. If you think about life on Earth, everything sleeps. Plants sleep, every other animal species sleep. We sleep. We&#8217;re not entirely sure what sleep does. We do know it has some pretty important effects on our memory and our ability to learn new things. Our stress levels.<\/p>\n<p>If you&#8217;re not sleeping really well, you could get stressed out way more easily. The question might be, if we get rid of sleep, at what cost? Chances are, if we get rid of sleep, we&#8217;re not going to be the humans that we are today. We&#8217;re going to look very different. There&#8217;s the book series by Nancy Kress called Beggars in Spain, where they do genetically modify humans to get rid of sleep. Her presumption is that when you lose sleeping, you lose basically creative potential. There&#8217;s something about sleeping and dreaming that&#8217;s really important to our ability to create and even kind of be human.<\/p>\n<p>The people who get rid of sleep in her world are cold, calculating computer people, right? That might index us anxiety about what we would actually be losing when we lose sleep. That being said, the future of sleep, might be tinkering with it. One of the scientists that I find really interesting is this Italian, a guy named Claudia Stampe who is a yacht racer and he does these experiments on what he refers to as ultra short sleep. It&#8217;s basically cat napping for humans that you&#8217;re awake for a short period, you go to sleep for a short period. You&#8217;re awake for a short period. You don&#8217;t have long sleeping periods.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: It&#8217;s like polyphasic sleep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Right, yeah. I think it&#8217;s still online, there&#8217;s this Frontline episode, I thin that he was on. You can find this footage of him running this experiment with an undergraduate, where the kid has to wake up to a performance test every 2 hours, then he goes back to sleep. After about 30 days, it&#8217;s just getting harder and harder for this kid to wake up. He&#8217;s pretty groggy when he does get up. He can still actually get through his performance tests pretty well.<\/p>\n<p>Which points to this idea that maybe we can organize sleep differently. The 24 hour society might not be everybody being awake all the time. It might be that some people are going to be able to organize their work in ways that are different than this consolidated work and sleep period.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, didn&#8217;t Kramer, on Seinfield, do an experiment with that? It didn&#8217;t work out for him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Yeah, they call it the, it&#8217;s how Leonardo DaVinci apparently slept. Half an hour every 4 hours. It really doesn&#8217;t work out for Kramer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Doesn&#8217;t work out for him. Yeah, the whole idea of getting rid of sleep. I don&#8217;t know what I could do with myself, honestly. I would be bored out of my mind. One of the reasons I enjoy sleep is because it takes up time when I have nothing else going on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: That&#8217;s the thing that, I love my family.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: We spend a lot of time together already. The prospect of spending 8 more hours a day with my 4 year-old-son is a crazy prospect. If we did get to the point where we were awake all the time, we would have to really restructure what society looks like. It doesn&#8217;t mean that we would have 8 hours of recreation. We would probably be finding other ways to organize what we&#8217;re doing. That&#8217;s what I mean, if we get rid of sleep, we&#8217;re not going to be the human beings that we are today. Everything is going to change if we got rid of sleep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I don&#8217;t know, I think your book came out right before the uptake in tracking devices. Where you can track your steps, there&#8217;s even devices where you can track your sleep. This whole quantified self thing. This idea of being able to track, not only how many hours of sleep, but your quality of sleep. I even bought one of those ZIO things, you strap it to your head and it reads your brainwaves. Does this sort of entrench people more into the idea that you okay, you need to sleep 8 hours straight or 9 hours. Or does it give people information where they an start tinkering with their own sleep schedule?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: I think it does both. The thing that I would point to is that there are cultural assumptions embedded in all of this technology. If the technology really assumes that consolidated sleep is the only way that you&#8217;re getting good sleep, then it&#8217;s probably a problem. If the technology is a little more flexible and is able to work with whatever kind of sleep schedule you want to work towards. Then it might be a little more liberatory.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that I tell people to do, and this is based on clinical practice, is that if you really want to figure out what kind of sleeper you are, you need probably 2 weeks of not waking up to an alarm clock. What the project is, is that you go to sleep when you&#8217;re tired, you time how long you go to sleep for, you are awake when you&#8217;re awake and maybe you have a cup of coffee, but you don&#8217;t drink lots of caffeine. You also don&#8217;t drink a lot of alcohol or anything like that. You&#8217;re just trying to isolate what your sleep is actually like.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that you can discern by doing that is what an actual sleep period is. If you look at what the physiology of sleep is you have these roughly 2 hour periods of moving through the different stages of sleep. Our sleep is always kind of built up of a certain number of those periods. When you talk about consolidated sleep. We&#8217;re thinking about 4 of those periods smashed together, because the 2 hour number is pretty soft. It can be anywhere between an hour and a half or 3 hours that a sleep period is. You always want to be sleeping in factors of that period. Right?<\/p>\n<p>If you have a technology that helps you figure out what your sleep period actually is and is helping you abide by a factor of those periods, then you&#8217;re probably using that technology pretty well. It&#8217;s decent technology, right? If you&#8217;re being shamed by your technology because you&#8217;re not sleeping 8 hours at night. That&#8217;s a problem.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I think the ZIO does that, because it&#8217;ll give you a sleep score, it&#8217;s not giving suggestions, like you need to do this to improve your sleep. I will do that algorithm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Yeah, right. The other thing, apps on your phone that are supposed to monitor how well you&#8217;re sleeping by putting it under your pillow. Probably not worth the money. Even, it&#8217;s called actigraphy technology and it&#8217;s a bracelet that people put on in order to clinically tract their movements. You can look at somebody&#8217;s actigraphy report to see when they&#8217;re awake or asleep pretty much. If you&#8217;re a really active sleeper, it&#8217;s a bad technology for you. If you sit at a desk all day and you don&#8217;t move your left arm very much, it&#8217;s also bad technology.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, that&#8217;s happened to me with the Fit Bit. I&#8217;ll be sitting, writing for 2 hours and it&#8217;ll say, &#8220;You were taking a nap.&#8221; It&#8217;s like no I wasn&#8217;t, I was writing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Yeah, I think that&#8217;s one of those things, that people always need to think about. What is the cultural assumption embedded in technology? The whole quantified self stuff, I&#8217;m a little skeptical of more broadly. It really is emphasizing these ideas about productivity. I think that ideas about being productive are ways that we tie ourselves to self exploitation. If all we&#8217;re thinking about is whether or not we&#8217;re being productive, we have sold out to the system.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Sold your soul. I mean, here&#8217;s the question, I know your book is primarily descriptive, and it\u2019s not prescriptive, and you&#8217;ve alluded to what people can do. What if you have a sleep schedule that just doesn&#8217;t fit the norm? What can you do? Do you think technology is giving us more flexibility in how we work and how we school that will allow us to change our schedules so it fits our personal sleep schedule?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: For some people, yes. One of the recommendations that I make is that we need to think about flex time for all the institutions that we interact with. Some workplaces have this idea that you can come into work late and work late. Or you can take a day off and make that day up some other way. That flexibility in the schedule is something that, historically has really been for the most elite workers right? It provides us a model for thinking about how we might structure institutional time across different kinds of work places, within schools especially. Having that model in schools would be great.<\/p>\n<p>You can also think about it related to family and recreation and stuff like that. We need a little more flexibility in order to address the different styles of sleep that people have. The challenge in that kind of recommendation is that it&#8217;s really, because it&#8217;s so tied to elite labor in the past, it&#8217;s difficult to get other kinds of labor on board with that schedule, right? If we want to pick on Starbucks, because it&#8217;s a low paying job, they&#8217;re going to give you the hours that they can give you. If you can&#8217;t work those hours then you&#8217;re just going to get fired right?<\/p>\n<p>What we might need to think about is the careful management of a work population. If you find workers that are good in the morning and bad at night, then you schedule them in the morning, and you schedule other workers at night. It depends on taking seriously, peoples variation in sleep and how it might actually fit into scheduling work time. I think for the so called creative class, technology makes things a lot easier, right? We can telecommute all the time. Or you can work flexible hours. The real question is what do we do with everybody else?<\/p>\n<p>Everybody else are also the people who have the worst health insurance. They&#8217;re probably the most likely to self medicate through ZZZQuil or alcohol or amphetamines or whatever else. If you really want a equitable society, you need to think about how we arranged school time and work time and family time in a way that&#8217;s in some ways agreeable to everybody. Instead of having this static schedule, we need to think about what can we actually do in order to make it a little more livable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Interesting. Matthew, it&#8217;s been a fascinating discussion, thank you so much for your time, it&#8217;s been a pleasure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Wolf-Meyer<\/strong>: Thanks Brett, it&#8217;s been a pleasure for me too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Our guest today was Matthew J Wolf-Meyer. He is the author of the book The Slumbering Masses. You can find that on amazon.com and bookstores everywhere. That wraps up another addition of the Art of Manliness podcast. For more manly tips and advice, make sure to check out the Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com. Until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Sometimes when I&#8217;m lying in my bed falling asleep, a thought will come across my mind: at this moment tens of millions of people are going completely unconscious and immobile and having crazy hallucinations. Because if you think about it, that&#8217;s what happens when you fall asleep. And&nbsp;you pretty much go to sleep whenever [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":47558,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[42265,7,156],"tags":[],"yst_prominent_words":[],"class_list":["post-47531","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-health","category-health-fitness","category-podcast"],"featured_image_urls":{"rpwe-thumbnail":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/05\/slumber-feature-45x45.png"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47531","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=47531"}],"version-history":[{"count":31,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47531\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":142137,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/47531\/revisions\/142137"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/47558"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=47531"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=47531"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=47531"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=47531"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}