{"id":40079,"date":"2014-05-02T17:33:07","date_gmt":"2014-05-02T22:33:07","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/?p=40079"},"modified":"2025-11-16T19:54:14","modified_gmt":"2025-11-17T01:54:14","slug":"art-of-manliness-podcast-66-the-art-of-roughousing-with-dr-anthony-debenedet","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/relationships\/fatherhood\/art-of-manliness-podcast-66-the-art-of-roughousing-with-dr-anthony-debenedet\/","title":{"rendered":"Art of Manliness Podcast #66: The Art of Roughhousing With Dr. Anthony DeBenedet"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/60834e7b-dc5b-44c8-86fd-6d21b0ee804f?dark=true\" width=\"100%\" height=\"200px\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe>\\n<\/p>\n<p id=\"title\" class=\"a-size-large a-spacing-none\">I&#8217;m a big fan of roughhousing with my kids, and we&#8217;ve covered the importance of this father\/child tradition in a previous <a title=\"The Importance of Roughhousing With Your Kids\" href=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/articles\/the-importance-of-roughhousing-with-your-kids\/\">article<\/a> and <a title=\"The Importance of Roughhousing With Your Kids [VIDEO]\" href=\"https:\/\/www.artofmanliness.com\/articles\/the-importance-of-roughhousing-with-your-kids\/\">video<\/a>. In those pieces, I cited real research that shows something dads already know intuitively &#8212; that there are a lot of benefits to wrastlin&#8217; with your rugrats. Today I talk to the co-creator of the source book on that research: Dr. <span class=\"author notFaded\" data-width=\"\"> <span class=\"a-declarative\" data-action=\"a-popover\" data-a-popover=\"{&quot;position&quot;:&quot;triggerBottom&quot;,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;contributor-info-B004YJU00S&quot;,&quot;allowLinkDefault&quot;:&quot;true&quot;}\"> Anthony T. DeBenedet. DeBenedet, along with <\/span><\/span><span class=\"author notFaded\" data-width=\"\">Lawrence J. Cohen, are the authors of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/gp\/product\/1594744874\/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=390957&amp;creativeASIN=1594744874&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=stucosuccess-20&amp;linkId=XVZZAX7PH3I6S54Y\"><em>The Art of Roughhousing: Good Old-Fashioned Horseplay and Why Every Kid Needs It<\/em><\/a>. In this podcast I talk to Dr. DeBenedet about why roughhousing is so good for your kids.<\/span><\/p>\n<h3 class=\"a-size-large a-spacing-none\">Show Highlights:<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li>Why&nbsp;roughhousing has a PR problem<\/li>\n<li>How roughhousing makes your kids smarter and more ethical<\/li>\n<li>How roughhousing can help prevent your daughter from suffering Queen Bee Syndrome<\/li>\n<li>How soon can you start roughhousing with your progeny? (It&#8217;s sooner than you think)<\/li>\n<li>And much more!<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"a-size-large a-spacing-none\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-40081\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/\/2014\/05\/ough.jpg\" alt=\"Book cover, the art of roughhousing by Anthony Debenedet and Lawrence Cohen.\" width=\"396\" height=\"555\"\/><\/p>\n<div style=\"color: #111111;\">\n<h3>Listen to the Podcast! (And don\u2019t forget to leave us a review!)<\/h3>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/the-art-of-manliness\/id332516054?mt=2\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49206 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-itunes.png\" alt=\"Available on itunes.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49207 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/available-on-stitcher.png\" alt=\"Available on stitcher.\" width=\"250\" height=\"92\" data-pin-nopin=\"true\"\/><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/soundcloud.com\/artofmanliness\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49208 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2015\/07\/soundcloud-logo.png\" alt=\"Soundcloud logo.\" width=\"250\" height=\"127\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pcasts.in:443\/NwCI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-49655\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/\/2015\/08\/pocketcasts.png\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" srcset=\"\" alt=\"Pocketcasts.\" width=\"225\" height=\"225\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/play.google.com\/music\/managemusic?t=The_Art_of_Manliness\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-56926 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2016\/05\/google-play-podcast-e1464287132541.png\" alt=\"Google play podcast.\" width=\"250\" height=\"190\"\/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/2vJHmWhhcMQRXtTruuFWTJ\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-81682\" src=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default.png\" alt=\"Spotify logo.\" width=\"248\" height=\"130\" srcset=\"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default.png 400w, https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2018\/01\/open-graph-default-320x168.png 320w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 248px) 100vw, 248px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/art19.com\/shows\/the-art-of-manliness\/episodes\/f8f46416-ac5a-41c8-b0fa-03ab0a5abd7c\">Listen to the episode on a separate page.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/rss.art19.com\/episodes\/f8f46416-ac5a-41c8-b0fa-03ab0a5abd7c.mp3\">Download this episode.<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.omnycontent.com\/d\/playlist\/aaea4e69-af51-495e-afc9-a9760146922b\/6081eee7-c459-4e12-a1ab-aadc000fc4a7\/413a6904-4d72-4be8-9421-aadc000fc4ba\/podcast.rss\">Subscribe to the podcast in the media player of your choice.<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<h3 style=\"color: #111111;\">Read the Transcript<\/h3>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of The Art of Manliness Podcast. Well, I\u2019m a dad, I know a lot of you who are listening are dads or some of you have the goal of being a father one day, so this podcast is for you guys. One of my favorite things to do as a dad is roughhousing with my son, Gus, he is 3 years old. We\u2019ve been roughhousing since he was about a year. It\u2019s just so much fun, you know, just wrestling with him on the ground, throwing him up in the air, doing body slams on the bed, doing baby-suplex. I mean Gus just get to kick out of it. It\u2019s always fun when I\u2019m like engrossed in work and Gus comes and pulls on my arm and say he wants to wrestle with dad and that\u2019s how he says it. Anyways, I\u2019ve a lot of fun, it\u2019s just a lot of great memories, but there is actually some benefits like going along with roughhousing besides just doing some exercise and having fun with dad. Our guest today actually wrote a book on the topic of roughhousing and the benefits of roughhousing. His name is Dr. Anthony DeBenedet. He is a board certified physician and in the book that he coauthored is The Art of Roughhousing. And today we\u2019re going to talk about the research that has come out about benefits of roughhousing and basically how it makes your kid awesome. It helps your kid become smarter, more ethical, more moral, you name it, and it strengthened the father-child bond. So, if you\u2019re a dad you\u2019ll really enjoy this podcast so stay tuned.<\/p>\n<p>Anthony DeBenedet, welcome to the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Oh, it\u2019s great to be here Brett, thanks for having me. I\u2019m such a fan of The Art Of Manliness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Well, thank you so much, I appreciate that. Alright, so your book is the art of roughhousing, what inspired you to write a book about roughhousing? Because it seems one of those things that everyone just\u2013\u2013I think it\u2019s kind of\u2026 yeah, it\u2019s a childhood rite of passage, everyone does it, why did you feel compelled to write a book about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right, I was\u2013\u2013 what got me interested in roughhousing was really two things, one basically, it was the way that I found to connect with my daughter when she was 2 or 3. I was kind of on this road, disconnection and a kind of dad-failure trajectory, and playing rough-and-tumble play in particular really kicked us back into a better place and then also just really the science behind it. I was a\u2013\u2013 I\u2019m a working parent, so I kind of wanted to find out what would be the best thing for my book in terms of small amount of time that I would have with my kids after work and I found that, rough-and-tumble play really had a lot of great developmental benefits for kids, there was a lot of cool science behind it. That\u2019s what got me interested in doing the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Great. So, I want to talk about the science and research because I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by it. But before that, I mean do you think roughhousing has a PR problem, because we\u2019ve written about roughhousing on the site and\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: You know we\u2019ve done videos and every time we do someone\u2019s like oh, yeah, everyone says roughhousing is it\u2019s\u2013\u2013 you know people are trying to outlaw roughhousing. Why do you think there is that perception that roughhousing has been banned or look down upon?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: I think it goes down to really one big thing and that\u2019s kind of our obsession with safety in our culture. I don\u2019t want to be too much soapbox, but I think there has been a lot of great thing regarding child safety in terms of car seats, I mean those are great and bike helmets are great, but it seems like we\u2019ve almost gone too far and we kind of become more afraid of bruised knee or hurt feeling that kind of life\u2019s in real danger, so I think that when people start thinking about roughhousing, they think about oh, that\u2019s going to be dangerous. And actually that\u2019s not really what the research shows from a physical injury standpoint, we don\u2019t see a lot of injuries from healthy roughhousing and it actually is very safe if you have kind of basic knowledge or basic principles that are guiding you during the play time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Interesting. Yeah, it was funny, you know we did a post about roughhousing and I\u2013\u2013my son was like 18 months old at the time and I just post a little iPhone video with me roughhousing, you know, nothing like\u2013\u2013 I wasn\u2019t like being very gentle\u2026 I mean yeah, he was having fun, he was laughing, and someone on Facebook said they\u2019re going to report me to Facebook that I was abusing my child and I was like why, what\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And it\u2019s funny that whole you know the\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: There is sort of\u2013\u2013it seems there is sort of reaction to the overreaction with safety because you know recently we had this article on the Atlantic Monthly about are we cuddling our kids too much or something wrong with helicopter parenting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And there is all those research saying that yeah, we\u2019re actually hurting our kids by trying to protect them too much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right, that\u2019s exactly right, roughhousing fits kind of writing to that paradigm and in a lot of ways it\u2019s kind of the roots of the paradigm and then you know we think that we can\u2019t be playful physically with kids, but that\u2019s wrong. I mean that\u2019s not wrong as parents that we should be you know providing instruction, being disciplinarian, and all that kind of stuff and really you know the essence of their world in their playful world. I mean that is the language and when we\u2019re wearing our sleeves, get down and dress or it\u2019s all over, and giggle with them and do those kinds of activity, horse play kind of things that\u2019s, really where we\u2019re starting to really connect with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Picking their language.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, so let\u2019s get into the research, because this is the thing that fascinated me the most about your book. I mean there is actually science that says yeah you should roughhouse, you know you should give your baby a baby-suplex, basically\u2026<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: So, what does the science say about roughhousing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, the science is what grabbed me too as kind of a trade scientists, you know, it really is\u2013\u2013there is three thing that I tell folks that three big benefits that kids get when mom or dad actually roughhouse with them and that three things are intelligence, creativity, and connection, those three things. Intelligence is it really fascinates me because you know there is a lot of way to \u2013\u2013 first of all there is a lot of way to think about intelligence but you know from not only IQ standpoint, I think about brain development in kids the biggest years of brain development are ages essentially from age one through eight essentially. That\u2019s why a lot of neuro connections are happening. And roughhousing causes something called simultaneous activation of the brain and that\u2019s really is the essence of brain development. That means that multiple parts of a child\u2019s brain are being stimulated all at once. So, their cortex is firing, their mental is firing, their cerebellum, all main parts of the brain are firing and that is what\u2019s causing kind of neuro connections to develop, naturally be best in the brain development. The only knowledge I can give you in the adult world that you are running a marathon and you\u2019re at the same time beating heart and reading a book, all at the same time, that\u2019s kind of analogy, I mean in adult world, but that\u2019s really what roughhousing is doing for kids\u2019 brain. And that\u2019s \u2013\u2013yeah, we just talk about book smarts or kind of fear or memory \u2013\u2013you know your ability to memorize basically you know the foundation when people say book smarts, that\u2019s what the feeling, it\u2019s creating the simultaneous activation but even more so than that growing some of the benefits. Actually, real quick on intelligence\u2013\u2013 because my favorite is emotional intelligence, and roughhousing does a great job of imparting emotional intelligence and emotional intelligent concepts in children and the basic gist of that is that emotional intelligence comes under two things\u2013\u2013 one is understanding your own emotion and then the second thing is kind of a little bit more sci-fi, that\u2019s being able to tend to the emotions of others without really talking to them. And roughhousing does a great job of teaching kids how to do that. Basically when you\u2019ve roughhousing play period, you\u2019ve lots of time where kids start feeling really, really high energy, really, really quick and then there is a wind down period where they start to understand what it feels like to have a low energy, low emotion and that basically, that arc of winding up and winding down is basically the essence of understanding your own emotions and trying to getting that kind of barometer dimmer sketch instilled in the kids at an early age is really the essence of emotional intelligence. The second piece, you know understanding other or being able to sense other people\u2019s emotion is basically is roughhousing is great for kids because there is a lot of nonverbal body language kind of stuff as eye contact, it\u2019s body language and so as you begin sense the emotions of dad or mom, then you kind of transcend that ability out into the real world and being able to sense other people\u2019s emotions, that is two big benefits, creativity. Creativity is pretty easy, roughhousing in whiles and kind of horse plays is all about creative problems. So you know kids love shark and glaciers, and volcanoes and things that explode. And so as you\u2019re kind of on the ground with them and throwing pillows or jumping on cushion or mattress to mattress, you can inject creative problems in this play time, like you know how do we get away from the sharks they\u2019re going to attack our island, what do we do? And kids will come up with amazing creative imaginative solutions and that kind of starts the wheels turning in terms of this and the research shows this in terms of developing divergent thinkers and that\u2019s what we want kids to be and you wanted to be and everybody wanted to be divergent thinkers and that\u2019s you know the idea that there is more than one solution to a problem. That\u2019s really the essence of creativity, it\u2019s not so much like to be quite music or musical instrument or can you create a painting. It\u2019s really can he solve the problem in different ways. And then the final one is connection. It\u2019s good to be really excited and that\u2019s \u2013\u2013I think that you know when you ask parents, you know what do you really wants from your kids, well, everybody says they want to be happy. And then the second thing, I think is that we want some connections with them, so that when they get older, they might ask us for surprises in some contexts or they might want us to be a part of their life in some way. I think building that connections through roughhousing at a young age is really\u2013\u2013going back to the brain and actually the roughhousing released that which is the cuddle chemical which has been in the news, and the media quite a bit over the past 5 to 10 years, a lot of research being done. Oxytocin is basically the biological basis of empathy and essentially tells somebody that we\u2019re really there with them, it\u2019s released with like a genuine hug or handshake or a fist pump but it\u2019s also relish roughhousing. So, kids basically and adults too kind of develop that biological connection early and that kind of place. Sorry, that was a long answer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: No, no, it\u2019s\u2013\u2013I love it because it\u2019s a fascinating stuff, so intelligence, creativity and connection.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I can say from my own experience with my son, I\u2019ve definitively seen that especially the emotional part. Because you know sometimes you know when you roughhouse there is some shots below the belt or you know you got a knee in the nose and like it hurts like aaah\u2026 and it\u2019s interesting to see my son come up to me in really\u2013\u2013 you know when he was like one- and-a- half, two and say oh, daddy hurt me, daddy you\u2019re okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right, he\u2019ll attend to that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: He\u2019ll attend to that, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And this\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: And that\u2019s because a lot of those chemicals are \u2013\u2013yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, and he says I\u2019m sorry\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And he says I\u2019m sorry and it\u2019s nothing too he\u2019s like he has learned sort of like boundaries right, like he doesn\u2019t\u2013\u2013 he knows like what\u2019s\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: You know he can\u2019t go too far with roughhousing because then it\u2019ll become sort of malicious.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: You know, he\u2019s learned to restraint himself a bit when we rough house, he doesn\u2019t like you know stomp on my face basically\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: He knows that\u2019s wrong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: That\u2019s so funny, right, exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Someday that\u2019ll payoff later in the future when he is an adult, you know and he\u2019d be ethical. Okay, you mentioned in the beginning that the reason you got interested in roughhousing is because you\u2019ve a daughter, and I thought we typically associated roughhousing like something boys do with dads, but you make an argument that girl should roughhouse too, are there\u2019re any unique benefits\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: That the research has found that you know if dads roughhouse with their daughters that\u2019ll you know help them in someway that\u2019s different from boys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, they definitely are. So real quick on the boys education and kind of\u2013\u2013 so roughhousing is really, and I try to tell folks it\u2019s really for everyone, so it\u2019s for both boys and girls and moms and dads, there is no real gender barrier. I think that dads and boys may come a little bit more naturally that\u2019s okay and just like for moms and girls, nurturing like come a little bit more naturally. And I think for boys at least roughhousing, you know boys\u2026 most important for boy. I\u2019ve three girls so I \u2013\u2013you know at least from what I\u2019ve heard and I you know as a man and I believe that the most important thing for boys to learn before they leave the house is actually there is more to physical contact, and sex, and violence and that\u2019s you know you can get that lesson in as a parent, you\u2019re really doing 90% of what will really be accessible skills to your son. And roughhousing is a great job of dad obviously because you\u2019re showing that this playfulness in physical contact. For girls, the important thing I think that they can learn before they leave the house is to find their voice and that\u2019s, you know that\u2019s one of the most powerful things in the world is a woman\u2019s voice and roughhousing does a great job of that a lot. In a lot of way what you\u2019re talking about with your son is that when something doesn\u2019t feel right or doesn\u2019t go right or something is hurt or somebody gets hurt, there is a lot of those speaking up, there is a hold-the- action kind of time period where a girl starts to really find that voice and say what they didn\u2019t like about the play time, or what they did like about it and even taking that a step further when they get a little bit older. So, you know after age eight and kind of preteen years and that\u2019s so much of the improvisational roughhousing and wrestling that goes on when they\u2019re younger, but it can become much more about physical challenges. So when you\u2019re doing a run together or balancing out, you\u2019re seeing how far you can balance and how long you can balance and how you can jump off sort of things and that also is all about using your voice and talking about what your abilities are. So, I think that\u2019s a unique benefit that girls get pretty quickly. Boys are usually pretty good about kind of yelling and talking about what they want and you know that voice boys kind of come quickly, but they need to learn that physical contact and girls are a little shower to warmup, but roughhousing helps a lot in that way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I think I\u2019ve read this in your book if I remember correctly that they done studies where they found that girls roughhouse with their fathers like tend to not be queen B, you know that whether they get to become preteens, was that you or was it Martin Summer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: That\u2019s me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, which I think is great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I mean no one wants their daughter to be the mean girl, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right, yeah, exactly. And that goes back to that I didn\u2019t actually talk about this, but real quickly the social intelligence aspect is another kind of intelligence that roughhousing bring and that\u2019s the idea of knowing when to be a leader or when to be a follower. I think that\u2019s you know in our country we talked a lot about leadership and it\u2019s equal value is followership. We all have skills that can be imparted on others and imparted on the world as a whole and that kind of let\u2019s say leadership piece knowing when to be but it also need to know when to be followers to the benefit of the team and to the benefit of the collectives.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, yeah, in related to that \u2013\u2013I mean yeah, it does teach us social intelligence and I think also for me and my son, like you know I\u2019m definitely bigger and stronger than my son.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: But you know sometimes I let him just take control and just like pound me right and just do whatever\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: That\u2019s key.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah and\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Key, yeah, totally. That\u2019s a social intelligence.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah and hopefully I\u2019m imparting that you know even though you\u2019re strong and bigger than the other guy, you know sometimes you got to take turns and roles, right and like\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: That\u2019s right\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, fascinating. So\u2026 I mean yeah, so like roughhousing like it makes your kid awesome basically.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I mean.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, I tell folks when I talk to them and discuss it, you know anybody who comes on and says that there is a magic bullet to parenting should probably turn their face and walk out but I think what I\u2019m trying to say to folks is that this was a tool at least for me that\u2019s helps a lot among the other tools, of course, as a parent and that you know your kid best and that it\u2019s not you know if you hear this podcast and you\u2019re like okay I\u2019m going to go home and just start throwing my kid around, you know that might not be exactly what to do. It might be just getting down on the floor with them or you know just pushing on hands on each other a little bit and not necessarily rubbing it up immediately, but it\u2019s been a good research for me and kind of my toolbox of being a dad you know to try upon it and one that\u2019s definitely there is some science behind it for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Okay, so we just talked about the benefits for children, is there any research about the benefits for parents?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, it\u2019s interesting. The parent research is there is a lot of stuff on\u2013\u2013 and not necessarily roughhousing proper but, of course, physical activity and it\u2019s just\u2013\u2013 it\u2019s actually physical activity that involves other people. So there is some translation there and mainly what I would say to that is there is a probably a cognitive benefit to playing in this way with your kids, a cognitive in terms of kind of brain health, so not only just it help me you know simultaneous activation helps kids brain and probably helps adults brain as well, the research isn\u2019t as strong. And then, also I think just the connection piece and I think that\u2019s the other big benefit. You know oxytocin not only helps with connection, it actually helps counteract the stress response, so if you\u2019re really you know you thought that your feeling your stress level as a parent is very high, which a lot of ours us including mine, roughhousing release of oxytocin actually helps counteract cortisol. That\u2019s the other big kind of benefit in a sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I guess so, if you had a bad day at work, play with your kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, roughhousing is the answer to everything. I\u2019m joking. It seems like that, it\u2019s great. So, how soon can you start roughhousing with your\u2013\u2013 I mean is there like a guidelines or just sort of like when you think your kid is ready for it or your time I mean\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Definitely you don\u2019t want to start roughhousing as soon as they\u2019re out of the womb, that wouldn\u2019t be good\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s a good question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: But you know is there any guideline when you can start kind of doing a little bit of rough-and-tumble play.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s a good question. I think the best guideline is that usually over\u2013\u2013 there are some gentle thing that you can do even at six months of age and that just involves gentle nudging, rolling them around on the carpet basically lifting them up in the air, but the key on that is really it comes on again back to the knowledge is what equals safety not prohibition. It\u2019s basically is related to the neck development, the muscles of the neck and that\u2019s sort of thing is pretty obvious but it\u2019s basically once kids can hold their neck upright on their own that\u2019s usually a good sign you can kind of start being a little more physical with them. But when their necks are not\u2013\u2013 when they\u2019re not able to support their necks on their own, that\u2019s when you just want to keep a gentle nudging and rolling around the muscle. In general mostly the peak age for roughhousing is age 2 to 8. After 8 it becomes more of a physical challenge kind of stuff and less wrestling, pillow fight, you know that kind of improvisational stuff, it\u2019s much more structure that\u2019s all. I used to jump off the roof with my dad and learning how to land safely and those kind of stuff\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: That\u2019s awesome. I mean yeah, if you do that today like the neighbors would be calling DHS, so it was dad jumping off the roof with his 3-year-old. when you\u2019re speaking, I mean I\u2019m sure there\u2019s some dads out there who are listening and you know maybe roughhousing doesn\u2019t come naturally, they don\u2019t like\u2013\u2013 they didn\u2019t do when they were kid or whatever, like they\u2019re not sure like how to go about doing it, any guidelines on getting started with roughhousing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, I\u2019ll say two things\u2013\u2013 one is fall over, you start falling over randomly, kids will love that, they\u2019ll jump on you, you want to do anything other than just you know feigned a trip or fall and then just fall on ground in agony and kids will laugh and they\u2019ll jump on you and begin kind of roll on and start there, the other thing that I would say is that follow the giggles. What I mean by that is that it\u2019s the joke or the play time or the rowdiness will get old for you that\u2019s long before, usually it\u2019s get old for your kids or child and what that means is that just keep doing it, they\u2019ll fall over again or you know throw them up in the air again or having climb on your back again and run around the house again, if they\u2019re liking it then they are giggling just keep doing it even if they feels like it is getting old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And you also have in your book like examples like kind of suggestions for like roughhousing moves, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, so check that out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Some great stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, it was like\u2026 yeah, the book has a lot of activities. I think there\u2019s over 100 activities on a lot of different kids to think about and have fun with.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Yeah, my son\u2019s favorite is baby-suplex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: It is basically I just take him kind of throw him over my\u2013\u2013not throw him over my shoulder, it\u2019s basically like a wrestlemania suplex, wrestle is like he wants to wrestle and then the other one is\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: He calls it scoop-a-bed, and we just like, it\u2019s like when I throw him on the bed and\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: And that\u2019s that, I mean it\u2019s really simple stuff\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, we call it big the same move, we call big drop in\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Big drop.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Basically, lift kids up \u2026. they\u2019re lying on their back, you lift them up and then just drop them right in the bed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: I love it. Well, Anthony what can people find out more about your work on roughhousing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Yeah, there is a website howtoroughhousing.com, although I\u2019ll say that Facebook page which is also the other roughhousing update a little bit more regularly and then the website and then my twitter handle is Rowdy Dad and anybody can contact me directly through twitter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Fantastic. Well, Anthony DeBenedet, thank you so much for your time, it\u2019s been a pleasure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Anthony<\/strong>: Oh Brett, thanks for having me and I love your work and keep it up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brett McKay<\/strong>: Thank you very much. Our guest today was Dr. Anthony DeBenedet. His book is The Art of Roughhousing and you can find that on amazon.com. You can find out information about his book at the artofroughhousing.com<\/p>\n<p>Well that wraps up another edition of The Art of Manliness Podcast. For more manly tips and advice, make sure to check out at The Art of Manliness website at artofmanliness.com and if you enjoyed the podcast, we\u2019d really appreciate it if you would go on to iTunes or Stitcher or whatever you use to listen to the podcast and give us review, that\u2019ll help and helps spread the word about the podcast. So until next time, this is Brett McKay telling you to stay manly\u2026<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\ufeff\\n I&#8217;m a big fan of roughhousing with my kids, and we&#8217;ve covered the importance of this father\/child tradition in a previous article and video. In those pieces, I cited real research that shows something dads already know intuitively &#8212; that there are a lot of benefits to wrastlin&#8217; with your rugrats. Today I talk [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":48304,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[253,156,42285],"tags":[],"yst_prominent_words":[],"class_list":["post-40079","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-fatherhood","category-podcast","category-relationships"],"featured_image_urls":{"large":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2014\/05\/roughhousing-478x280.jpg","reactor-320":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2014\/05\/roughhousing-320x188.jpg","rpwe-thumbnail":"https:\/\/content.artofmanliness.com\/uploads\/2014\/05\/roughhousing-45x45.jpg"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40079","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=40079"}],"version-history":[{"count":39,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40079\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":142010,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/40079\/revisions\/142010"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/48304"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=40079"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=40079"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=40079"},{"taxonomy":"yst_prominent_words","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/beta.artofmanliness.com\/app-json\/wp\/v2\/yst_prominent_words?post=40079"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}